Everything You Need to Know About Investing in Trading Sports Cards

Who’s live?

[Male] I am right now.


[Male] Instagram.

What’s up, Instagram?

I don’t have a lot to say about that.

Actually, that’s good.

I got a story now for that.

Instagram, Tik Tok live?

[Male] Yes.

Tik Tok, what’s good?

[Male] Twitter.

Twitter live, good.



We’re fully live.

Facebook and LinkedIn?

[Male] Yep.

YouTube, no?

[Male] I’m pretty sure YouTube as well.

Yeah, it is.


[Male] Yep.


Everything’s live.

[Male] Mm Hmm.


What’s up, everybody?

How’s everybody doing today?

I’m in a really, really good mood.

I thought it would be a
really good idea for me

to do a bunch of Q&A and here’s
how we’re gonna do the Q&A.

If you wanna ask a question
about sports cards,

you can text me the
question at 212 931 5731.

For everybody who is manning the cameras,

if you wanna pin that phone
number to the top real quick

or repeat it of whatever
you’re planning on doing,

212 931 5731,

212 931 5731.

That sticker would be good
’cause I wanna talk about that.

So, yeah, so I’m gonna answer
a bunch of sports questions.

Let me get a little bit of a rant out

on what’s been going on, a
little history of how I got here,

and then we’ll just go into full Q&A.

Obviously I’m extremely
excited about sports cards

as you’ve been able to
tell with my content

over the last 60, 90 days especially.

It all kind of started, well,

it all kind of started in 1986.

From 1986 to 1994, I was
wildly in the sports card game.

I did sports card shows
in a lot of weekends

in 8th grade and then high school.

Then I started working in the store a lot,

my dad’s liquor store,

so I did less but I was
constantly in that game.

I had a blip of a comeback in 2003

because I thought LeBron James
was a generational talent

and so I bought a ton of ’03 Fleer and,

unfortunately when Lou was
a little guy, you know,

but then like got busy and
didn’t really go as hard

all the way through to Tops Chrome

or some of the other stuff as I wanted to

but we did that and then,

two years ago, two years ago,

it started getting really real for me.

My little guy was starting to get into it

and his friends and it
kind of got on my radar,

obviously a huge connection point.

It’s one of my macrothesis.

There’s a lot of macro thesises
that made me decide

to call my friends two
Augusts ago and say,

“Hey, sports cards are about
to come back in a real way,”

but one of them was dads
at my age who were really

in that prime collecting
year of that golden era

which also then became the junk wax era,

started having children that
were interested in cards

and I thought there was
a reloop and the same way

that I learned that Hasbro and Mattel,

when they were clients of VaynerMedia,

that toy franchises tend to
loop every 25 or 30 years

’cause the parent really
gets interested in their kids

being a part of there.

So, anyway, I’m gonna
keep telling the story

but I wanna just remind everybody,

if you’re just jumping on,

I’m doing full Q&A,

we’re gonna start taking
questions very shortly.

If you have a question about sports cards,

just text me right now.

We’ve got it pulled up here, 212 931 5731.

Put in your question.

We’re gonna call you and
you’re gonna ask your question

so put in your question.

We’re gonna call you right
here so we can banter

back and forth, pro, con, or indifferent.

I go to the National in
Cleveland two years ago,

kind of very stealth for a day and a half,

take my little guy, buy him a
bunch of cards, watch, learn.

I then spend a couple months really,

really spending my time
on eBay and reading forums

and blog posts about what has happened,

met a bunch of different
prominent dealers,

asked ’em questions about
the lost years for me

of like what happened or in
the lower production years.

What are these basketball inserts?

Started following a bunch
of Instagram accounts,

started getting really
passionate about it,

quietly started getting into it,

a little bit louder at
times, two, you know,

15 or so months ago, maybe
even more 16 months ago,

started talking about the
fact that I thought Giannis,

at that point I decided
basketball was a really good bet,

I thought Giannis was super
underpriced ’cause I thought

he was on the verge of becoming

the best basketball player in the world,

couldn’t believe how
inexpensive his rookies were,

made some of that content.

That was the first time
some of you saw me on that,

sold some of the ones that
I’ve accumulated for 200 bucks,

that’s bad now since they’re, what, 2600,

maybe even more.

Thought that was a good bet,

started thinking other
things were good bets,

put out a blog post 10
months ago on things

that I saw that I
thought were underpriced,

Jordan’s sticker ’cause I think

Fleer stickers were underpriced.

Basketball in general,
vintage basketball, soccer,

wrestling, big shout
out to King Kong Bundy,

one of the greats,

still has one of the fastest
wins in Wrestle Mania

when he destroyed S.D.
Jones in like 12 seconds

or something like that.

Got really excited about it,

got super hyped for National last year

where I met a ton of the
people in the industry,

got a table there, was
super pumped about that,

did a collaboration with Topps.

Topps paid me $25,000 to
curate a set that they sold

at the event.

That was cool.

That was fun to be part
of a baseball card,

was an insert in series two,
super pumped about that.

Met a ton of people at
the National last year,

paid attention to the trends and felt like

a couple things that emerged,

one, sneaker collector kids
needed to address the fact

that inventory was getting harder to get

over the last decade
because you couldn’t really

go to sneaker stores,

buy up and then flip,
that the stock X IPO’s,

the Nike Direct, like
that game was changing,

and those entrepreneurs,
which is another thing,

entrepreneurship as a
whole, what I grew up with,

is one of the reasons I
think this is happening,

sneaker kids needing an outlet
to get inventory and flip

because that’s what
they are, is an outlet.

More collectors growing because
40 year olds, some of them,

now have more income to buy the card

that they always wanted.

I think there’s a prop here for me.

This ’84 Topps Don Mattingly
rookie card was like

the biggest deal to me when I was a kid.

Being able to get it in a
10, we’ll get into grading.

We’ll get into the grading companies.

We’ll get into the companies
that own the IP of these cards.

Kept watching the space,
kept seeing momentum build,

and you know, three or four
months ago said like, wow,

this is about to get very serious.

There’s just more demand coming in.

Supply on the vintage stuff is quite low.

Supply on the modern
stuff in the super premium

has been manipulated to be
low, one of 10, one of ones,

autos, and just general production.

I do think the popularity of
sports cards is gonna lead

the Paninis and Topps to
start producing, Bowman,

Select, Optic, like
bigger quantity levels.

I don’t know any details but it surely,

I’m aware that or I believe or I’ve heard

through the grapevine
that production numbers

on Panini basketball
this year are obviously

a hell of a lot higher
than they were in 2012

and so what does the debate become

between the volume of population output

between a Kawhi Leonard rookie and a Zion?

There’s gonna be a big delta there.

So all the trends that you
saw happen in ’86 to ’94

will happen again from the
Panini, Topp standpoint,

Upper Deck, they should.

Those companies are in the
business of selling product.

We need to be thoughtful of
how we supply and demand that.

The grading company dynamic,

even though PSA started in 1991,

I faded out in ’94 and it still
had not really hit my radar.

I was a smaller dealer,
punk kid in New Jersey,

so I wasn’t going to the National.

I’m sure we saw the early
indications of that.

Now that is a standard.

There is a human subjectiveness
in grading cards from SGC,

BGS and PSA which I think
are the three top leaders

and there’s some other
companies, which brand,

no different than Sotheby’s
and Tiffany’s and Christie’s

holds the most value.

Which brand is the brand of the moment?

I have a lot of thoughts,
a lot of things to share.

I, myself, am trying to navigate

the sports card world right now.

Like I don’t know what’s
right for me to do,

like do I buy things
quietly and never share it

and just like live my life?

I wanna talk about it
’cause I’m excited about it

and I also spend my life
trying to tell people

things that I see to share
to make their worlds better

and so no different than me

thinking that you should do Tik Tok,

no different than I’m
telling everybody years ago

to buy Facebook stock
at 20 or $30 a share.

I genuinely think sports
cards are gonna continue

to go up quite a bit.

Gambling is a huge thread.

If you look at the average 15
to 30 year old male and female

but like the culture of sports fans,

they love to gamble, Daily
Fantasy Sports, regular gambling,

the demonization of
gambling is going away.

If you really look at what
makes it fun to open packs,

it is gambling.

You can literally buy a $200 pack.

You can literally pull a $10,000 card.

Breaking culture,

this dynamic of people on
YouTube opening up packs

and people buying slots
or them just entertaining

in the same way that slime
for little girls worked,

is happening for sports cards.

A lot of people are watching that content.

There’s a lot of dynamics in play

to why I think sports card,

44 year olds looking like, I
don’t wanna buy fucking art,

like I don’t wanna buy some
fucking old fucking art

of some Englishman or a
fucking scene of a hill.

My art is this.

My art is this.

Like I wanna build a case in my home

and when my friends come
over I don’t wanna be like

here’s a Picasso, fuck Pablo Picasso.

I wanna show them my stack

of 150 Hakeem Olajuwon rookie cards.

That’s cooler for me, that’s
more interesting for me,

and so I think,

when you look at the
average 35 to 60 year old

businessman and woman,

they’re more casual, they
care more about their stuff,

and I think sports cards has
the potential very quickly

to become the kind of
thing that people display

in their homes no different
than a nice painting

and I think that’s gonna
happen with comic books

and I think you’re gonna
see that quite a bit.

I think Bieber posted a
post maybe six months ago

where he showed a huge stack of like

his epic Pokemon collection that he bought

so I think that’s a dynamic.

I think there’s a lot of dynamics.

I think there’s a lot of emerging
things that are dangerous.

I think a lot of people
are getting into it

that are not educated.

They may follow me and get super excited

and then just go buy stuff without knowing

what grading company’s good,

what brands are good,
they’re just blindly buying.

I think there’s trimming, you know,

there’s people that are altering cards

and you got a human grading this.

That creates a vulnerability,
that becomes a big deep thing

that people are concerned about.

I understand.

Fraudulent plays in coins
and art and everything else

as well so there’s a
lot of stuff going on.

That’s my framework.

I’m super excited about it.

I think there’s some epic
long term opportunities.

For me, long term
opportunities look like this.

LeBron is everyone’s Jordan
of this generation and like,

I don’t know how people
are confused by this.

It’s fucking LeBron and God
forbid he wins a title this year

or anywhere in the next 36 months,

he starts getting into

some really interesting conversations,

not to mention I don’t know
if you’ve been following

LeBron James as a human but
so many of the good things

he does as a human is gonna
keep him culturally relevant.

He wants to play until his son plays.

Like if that works out,

that’s gonna be a cultural
moment in six years

or whatever the kid’s age is at right now

and then there’s this,

underpriced vintage basketball.

I think basketball is
clearly the next iconic sport

in America and it’s a global
sport in a lot of ways.

It’s why I also like
soccer and so I’m very hot

on the Dr. J’s, the Kareem Abdul Jabbar’s

Lew Alcindor rookie, the Oscar Robinson.

Here’s a nice little stack
of Magic and Bird rookies

that I have historically
thought are underpriced

and then I, so, and then there’s betting.

There’s short term betting,

baseball’s coming around right now.

A lot of you’ve seen on Twitter,

me getting excited about baseball.

Much like gambling,

sports cards helps you enjoy sports more.

I could give two shits unless Juan Soto

was on my fantasy team which he’s not

because in our dynasty
league, who’s got Soto?

[Male] Sin a mur?

Sin a mur, or somebody’s
gonna keep him so,

he’s not gonna be
available to me which means

I would not care about him at all.

Now, because I think he’s
one of the best young players

in baseball, has the potential,

I think he has the potential
to be better than Acuna.

In a world where I think
Acuna’s all time as well,

like that’s gonna make it
exciting to watch like,

I can get really pumped
about Nationals baseball now

because if Soto hits four homers,

that market fluctuates.

That’s like fun.

That’s what the Pete Alonso theory

was for me a couple weeks ago.

People love the long ball.

Don’t get it twisted.

Five tool athletes are
great for actual baseball.

If Pete Alonso hits 53 fucking
homeruns again this year

with his popularity and the way he rolls,

in New York, that becomes
a supply and demand.

It’s just supply and demand.

There’s the marketing side and
there’s the collecting side.

For many people in the hobby,
collecting is their passion

and things going up in price is not fun.

I respect the shit out of that.

On the same token, there’s
a lot of people who flip it.

To me, I don’t get to make
a judgment on capitalism.

Like should we be mad with real estate?

Should we be mad at that about America?

A lot of people, I’ve looked
at their Twitter streams

that have been mad at me that
say you should only collect.

This should not be about
flipping but then when you look

at their Twitter stream,

they’re pushing a lot of capitalism

and business first agenda.

So they want to suppress
the business dynamic

of these cards in their hobby,

but they don’t wanna do it in other places

which I think is inherently selfish.

Cards have been flipped forever
and that will always stay

whether I disappear tomorrow or not

and I enjoy it the way
I enjoy any business

’cause I’m an entrepreneur
that happens to like sports.

That’s who I am as a human.

So I think there’s a lot of opportunity.

I got more cards on here.

I’m a big believer in stickers.

I think soccer culture is
gonna bleed into our culture

and if you look at soccer
cards, historically,

their stickers are their rookie card.

So I think there’s a lot
of stickers from Panini

which is a huge brand now,

in the ’90’s and ’80’s in basketball,

so that’s why I have this.

There’s just a lot of
stuff I’m looking at.

I’m looking at it daily.

I think weird cards are interesting.

This is an ’86 JMS Barkley

which was like a hand cut out card.

I think it’s underpriced

because I think it’s super
interesting and weird

and earlier than his ’86,
’87 Fleer rookie card,

a different one.

I think a lot about supply and demand.

I do think, over time, population matters.

A lot of people talking
right now like, holy shit,

look how many Luka’s and Zion’s are on

from a population standpoint.

I keep saying, look, it’s
just supply and demand.

So if there’s 40,000 people
that wanna own a Zion rookie,

then 10,000 is not gonna be a problem.

When there isn’t, then there is a problem,

and I think a lot of people
need to be very careful.

You have some questions?

[Male] I do.

I think I’ve said enough at this point.

I wanna be very interactive.

Let’s roll.

Also, wanna say in 17 minutes,

I have to step out and
make a quick family call,

I’ll be right back.

[Male] The first one

Can you call the first one?

[Male] Yeah, cool.

Yeah, I wanna interact with the people

so we can do some follow up.

So that’s all going on,
I’m super excited about it.

There’s a lot of people
that I think are gonna get

a lot of enjoyment.

You know, Jim’s here.

He wrote a great LinkedIn post.

He works on my team.

He, ironically, used to work
at Beckett when I hired,

we didn’t even talk once
about that when we hired,

or maybe we, I think you might’ve
mentioned it for a second

but that’s super cool.

(phone ringing)

I’ll get into the happiness factor

that I thought you wrote
about better than anybody,

on your LinkedIn?

Happiness, financial opportunity,

not being bothered by if people
are collectors and flippers,

there’s a lot of themes.

[Male] Hey, this is Daniel?


[Daniel] Daniel.

Oh Daniel.

Hey, it’s Gary Vaynerchuk.

How are you?

[Daniel] I’m good, how are you?

I’m quite well.

What can I answer for you?

[Daniel] Hey, so I just had a question

about these sports cards
’cause I’m sure you know,

well obviously, the
market’s blowing up lately

and I’ve seen some theories online saying

that maybe the cause for
this is a lot of money

that investors like you
maybe your companies

are putting into the market so
I wanted to get your thoughts

on potentially is the market
overinflating right now

and an impending crash
in the not so far future?

So, I think there’s a lot that, Daniel.

I’m sorry, is that it, Daniel?

Daniel, I think there’s a couple things.

[Daniel] Yes.

Number one, anytime there’s more demand,

it’s less about money being
pumped in, it’s demand.

So when Dumbo was a
piece of shit in Brooklyn

and Williamsburg were
pieces of shit 15 years ago

and more people started buying up,

that inherently changes the dynamic.

It’s no different than
when I was telling people

to buy Facebook stock at 40
when their business results

were better and more people wanted it,

it’s just supply and demand
of how many shares there are

versus how many people want it.

I think a couple things
that matter, number one,

let there be no confusion.

Long before two years ago when
I started getting interesting

and then a year and a
half when I got louder

and maybe 30, 100 days ago
when I got much louder,

there was already,

the reason it even hit
my radar to pay attention

was things were already
happening without me.

There was already demand
starting to bubble up.

That’s what I was watching for.

I watch for slime with
teenage girls, for Tik Tok,

I’m a culture, I’m a consumer
behavior anthropologist.

That’s what I do for a living.

That’s why Vaynermedia’s
one of the biggest agencies

in the world.

We’re good at strategy and
we’re good at making videos

and pictures for that strategy.

So a couple things, the
answer’s absolutely,

and do I think that there’s
a vulnerability to that

with prices coming down?

Of course.

The question becomes
that’s only predicated

if demand goes away.

The question becomes is less
about me putting money in

or other people putting money in,

the question becomes how
many six to 20 year olds

are about to get interesting in this

and how long will it sustain?

I think one of the biggest vulnerabilities

to the sports card market is
everything’s expensive now.

A pack of basic cards is three bucks.

That keeps a lot of kids out of it.

I think one of the best
things that Panini and Topps

can do is come out with a 99 cent product.

I think it’s important
to keep a lot of youth

into collecting and flipping
and so I’ll be honest with you,

my intuition is we
haven’t seen anything yet

because I’m getting bombarded
and I’m watching other things,

people that have nothing to do with me

and have never heard of me.

Somebody made a post
yesterday on social and like,

“Look, I own a card store in Canada.

“Not a single fucking person
that’s walked into my store

“knows who the fuck Gary
Vaynerchuk is and basketball cards

“are flying off the shelf.”

Like to me, everyone’s
like, he’s inflating.

I’m like, I haven’t said
a single thing about Zion.

I owned, how many Zions do I own?

Goose egg.


[Daniel] Gary, wow.

I own zero Zions.

Now I’m not pumped about that.

[Daniel] Yeah, I’m sure.

But to me, it was like, injury risk,

I think if Zion gets hurt
before the end of the year,

like the floor collapses and I also think

that Panini made a lot more product

and I think once people
get to those numbers,

now Zion could be a forever player

on the level of LeBron and Jordan

and then that plays out but, for me,

you can’t invest in everybody.

Like Torres on the Yankees
excites the shit out of me.

I just can’t bet on all nine
guys that are really exciting

for me in baseball and I
don’t think it’s even fun

to bet on everybody ’cause for me,

a lot of this is like
are you right or wrong?

I feel great about how
right I was about Giannis.

I still feel great about De’Aaron Fox.

Just ’cause he was injured
and the team hasn’t clicked,

I don’t think that changes
my belief in who he is

over the next decade.

So it’s fun to be, and by the way,

I’m excited to be wrong.

Let me give you some of my
highlights when I was a kid.

I overinvested in Todd Van Poppel.

Did not work out.

I thought it was gonna be Cy Young.

I invested, and this was with my heart,

an ungodly amount of percentage

of money I had on Blair
Thomas, Score rookie cards.

Did not work out.

Like I have nothing,

Bo Kimble I thought was gonna be

the greatest basketball
player of all time.

On the flip side,

I was incredibly wrong
about Patrick Mahomes.

That was more on just me
and my friends talking about

if I thought he was gonna be
good, less as sports card.

So I think it’s like any
market in the world, brother,

like it’s just supply and
demand and I think we’re not,

I think we’re in the
second quarter of demand

with sports cards which means
there’s more room to grow

and I think if you spend
80% of your energy and time

on the classics, Jordan, Brady,

two guys I don’t love so
much but like, clearly,

GOATs in their industry,
LeBron, like to me,

even wrestling like The Rock or like,

I think if you stay
conservative on classics

or all time players

and then you have a
little fun on prospects,

do you think Jaren Jackson’s
gonna be good or not?

Do you think John Collins in
Atlanta’s gonna be good or not?

Do you think Sancho’s gonna
be good or not, Mbappe,

like those are fun little bets.

I think if you’re the kind of
person that’s coming into this

and buying a ton of, right now,

Soto and Acuna and betting
on their, maybe Trout,

and like you need to be very
careful because if they’re not,

the demand is gonna get
soft and you can get caught.

I mean, look at Russell Westbrook.

In the heat of all of this
and in the heat of basketball,

his cards are down
because, for a lot of us,

we don’t think he’s gonna
reach that next plateau

and a lot of the money
was in it and so I think

you have to be careful about that.

Does that make sense?

[Daniel] Yeah, for sure, it does.

Good luck, thank you.

[Daniel] Awesome,
thank you, appreciate it.

One of the things I
like about wrestling,

so I actually think comic books has,

you can get the next call,

has a lot more upside than
cards in a lot of way,

it’s just that I love cards

and I like sports betting

and I think that’s bleeding into this

and I like sneakers but like,

Ironman doesn’t get hurt, right?

And neither does King Kong
Bundy or The Rock so I think

[Male] Hello?


Who’s this?

[Male] Hey, this is Andrew.

Andrew, what’s good?

[Male] Hey, how’s going?

You’re chopping, brother.

[Male] It’s good to talk to you.

Good to talk to you too.

What’s your question, brother?

[Andrew] So my big question
is I came from the old world

of the 96’s where I was
collecting Iversons,

Kobe, and Carter.

Coming back to it, obviously,

because what you were
saying earlier is very true,

have older kids now.

My daughter’s seven, son’s
four, getting back into it,

just like everyone else.

So my big thing is last year I started,

I got (muffled) but I was pawning.

My question to you is do you
think it’s a better strategy

as a collector comes back in to buy boxes

and maybe hold ’em to flip to,

buy like a nice TSA card,

or just enjoy the fun
of just opening the pack

and getting low?

I think the answer is you
have to be very self aware

and focus on you, not what
I say, not what other say.

This is a single game of
what brings you happiness.

My friend, Old Lou, right,
who’s little Lou’s dad,

he loves opening wax.

Now if he lands a one of
one of an iconic card,

he can make that,

if he pulled the one of one Wander Franco,

it would’ve made his whole
venture ROI positive.

It’s unlikely that most
people pull such a big pull

that it makes it ROI positive.

If you make bets on players,

there is a more financial
potential of return,

especially if you’re good at it.

The problem is, it might not
be as fun for you, Alex, right?

Like opening packs is fun
as fuck, like it’s gambling,

it’s gambling so for me

[Andrew] And

Go ahead.

[Andrew] And that’s the,
that’s really the most fun,

you know, you’ve got kids,

you’ve got that whole game
of everything going

Of course.

[Andrew] But then I’m looking at eBay,

I’m looking at comps for
different things like,

a nice Zion card, you could get
tons of different Zion cards

from different companies
that are not terrible,

their price right now so
that’s kind of where

And then Zion gets hurt.

He already missed a big chunk
of the beginning of the season

and if Zion gets hurt,

the market falls apart, right?

[Andrew] Right.

So like, or he’s Yon itz and Luka

and keeps going through the roof

and it seems cheap right now.

What, you know, the one
thing I’ve noticed of people

who’ve ‘rassed me on
Twitter, they’re like,

this guy comes in and
thinks he’s an expert.

I don’t think that at all.

I don’t think I’m an expert at all.

First of all, I’m excited to do this Q&A

and answer I don’t know.

There’s a big gap in my game.

I just don’t know.

I do know certain things.

I know macrotrends of
human behavior pretty well

which is why I built a
big career and I know that

I also follow sports and
I also have the luxury

of being at a place in my
life where I probably know

who the human being is a little bit better

than most people because
I own a sports agency,

I run in circles that allows me

to get to know some of
these people and guess what?

One of your biggest
vulnerabilities is you think

a kid can jump out the
building but you actually

don’t know that he’s a piece
of trash and he’s gonna be

out of the league in three years

’cause of his human behavior.

So there’s a lot that goes into this.

There’s also Derrick Rose.

If I was getting involved right now,

I’d be and it was right
before Derrick Rose got hurt,

and he’s an MVP,

the youngest in the
league and well on his way

and in a big market and swaggy as shit?

I’m pouring real money into Derrick Rose

and then he goes on to becoming so injured

it doesn’t work out.

There’s Andrew Luck.

My favorite thing is to
figure out which quarterback’s

gonna put another ring to explode.

Andrew Luck would’ve been
at the top of that list,

then he just fucking retires!

So there’s an enormous
amount of risk in this game

which is why putting it into a place

of what brings you the most happiness,

I’m not gonna open a lot of packs.

I’m gonna do it at the
National when I’m excited.

I’m gonna do it with my
buddies once in awhile,

like with the NFL draft
when we’re in the second day

we like to open packs ’cause
that’s a little slow sometimes

but we got the Vayner stuff.

But for me, it’s much more,
I’m spending 80% of my money

on LeBron on Oscar
Robinson’s ’61 Fleer from SGC

’cause I think SGC is
underpriced over time

because for me, why does
Prizm have to be the leader?

Why can’t it be Optic?

Like you know like

[Andrew] Which is starting
to happen too and that’s

I bring it up ’cause I think it’s,

it’s why I tried to buy
Luka’s last night on Optic

and then what am I supposed to do,

like I’m trying to figure
out different cadences.

Do I buy up stuff but
then everybody whispers.

I tried something different yesterday

and said here’s my price on Luka

but then it went from 350 to 530.

I don’t know,

like how to play this ’cause
there’s a lot of attention

on me right now and I don’t know

what the right thing to do is.

What I’m gonna do is transparency.

I’m thinking about updating how many I,

like the Zion thing from the last kid,

like somebody hit me up today, he’s like,

“You’re hoarding Zions.”

I’m like, I own zero Zions.

Like, so, you know, and by the way,

I’m dick shit compared to who’s coming.

Over the next two years,

it is my belief that the Dwyane Wades,

the Offsets, the DaBabys, the Diddy,

I think a lot of people
are gonna start collecting.

I’m gonna be minor leagues in 24 months.

You think

[Andrew] I totally agree
with a bigger culture

coming into the card
culture, like it’s happening,

I see it.

Yeah, bro, you think
I’m moving the market?

Wait ’til fucking Diddy
puts a post with LeBron

in his Instagram.

Like people are confused
at where we are right now.

I don’t think I’m moving
it as much as people think.

There’s 100 things moving that
have nothing to do with me.

[Andrew] It’s gonna get,
it’s gonna get even more

So, Alex, to answer your question.

You have to have fun with your kids.

If I was your money manager,

I would tell you to offset
that with 50% of investment

on things that you think are ironclad.

[Andrew] Okay.

Like if you believe, and by the way,

I’m buying everything for the next cycle.

When I buy LeBron or Magic
Johnson or old basketball

or other things, I’m
buying for the next cycle.

I’m actually already
thinking about the next dip

in four years or three or two or seven

and then 21 years from now
because LeBron and Kobe

aren’t going anywhere and
that’s why basketball and soccer

really fascinate me
because I’m projecting them

to be more popular in 20 years.

[Andrew] Yeah, it’s gonna get bigger.

I mean, I have a couple
Kobes that I actually pulled

from when I was a kid
that I am not letting go,

like you said (muffled).

I love it.

Alex, keep going.

Just enjoy it and try to make sure

you don’t get overexposed financially.

Let’s get one more in.

I’ve got four minutes before my call.

(dial tone buzzing)

(phone ringing)

What do we got?



[Male] This is Jon.

Jon, it’s Gary Vaynerchuk.

How are you?

[Jon] I’m doing really well.

How you doing?

I’m well.

What question can I answer?

[Jon] Yeah, so I’m
curious about soccer cards.


[Jon] I think they’re
really undervalued.

Me too.

[Jon] I’ve picken up
Kylian Mbappé’s but

Me too.

[Jon] There’s just no true rookies,

like I’ve been picking up
a bunch of Kylian Mbappé’s.

I’ve done some with Prizm so
I’m just curious your response.

You know, Topps, Chrome, Prizm, Optic,

like what are you thinking on that?

The biggest thing I’m thinking about

is that the hobby is gonna evolve.

When I left cards, Shaq’s
rookie was stadium club,

not the beam team.

It was the upper deck, right?

Like right now one of the
things I’m thinking a lot about

is Topps Chrome is basketball’s
rookie card way back

but could it be Upper Deck?

The answer is the hobby decides

what the current true rookie
is and over a 30 year window,

it actually changes which is why

I’m starting to really
think about alternatives.

For example, I think Topps
regular basketball cards,

rookies, are potentially underpriced.

That’s why, let me pull it up,

it’s why I’ve started buying a little bit

of like the regular base
Topps, not just the Chrome.

Like to answer your
question, is it the sticker?

Is it Panini?

Is it Topps Chrome?

The market, like for
example, I personally,

for who knows why, I’m a human being,

like the Topps update
in series two baseball

as the rookie card more than
the Chrome but in five years,

’cause Chrome is so cool and
if you look at Topps Chrome

and Panini and Optic,
they’re more Chrom y out,

one could argue that
everybody getting excited,

bat up, bat down, Acuna, Topp series two,

like one could argue
that the Topps Chromes

are grossly underpriced
because in seven years,

they become the true rookie.

That goes above my pay
grade and everybody else,

that’s the world deciding
what the true rookie is.

In baseball, back in the day,

it was the Donruss Mattingly
rookie card, not the Topps.

Like this shit evolves
and I’d be very scared

to tell you which one.

By the way, one of the reasons

I really like the JMS Barkley,

one of the reasons I
like the 1972 icy set,

one of the reasons I
like some of these weird,

there’s an Elvin Hayes rookie card I have.

There’s a Jack in the Box
1968 Elvin Hayes that I like

’cause it’s older than
his rookie and I’m like,

why can’t that be the rookie?

That’s a card before.

It’s not an official set.

[Jon] Right.

Like Topps, but maybe, for
example, the Converse sets,

the icy sets, the Nike Jordan ’85.

Like if you think about
the masses getting in,

why isn’t the Nike Jordan ’85
cooler than the ’86 Fleer?

‘Cause Nike’s a hell of a lot
cooler than fucking Fleer.

I think there’s a lot
of things that people

haven’t fucking figured out yet.

[Jon] Yeah, I had a
converse set and I’m looking

at the visual appeal.

So for me, the Mbappe, I just
got a bunch of Prizm blue

’cause it’s blue on, you
know, blue in the jersey

and that’s how I’m making those choices,

how it looks.

I love it, I love it, brother.

Thank you so much.

[Jon] Yep, thanks, Gary.


All right, bye bye.

All right, here’s what I’d like to do.

I’m about to go and do this quick call.

Jim, I’d like you to sit
in here and tell your story

and then I want, if I’m not back

’cause it’s only gonna be five minutes,

tell your story about what
you wrote in LinkedIn.

I thought it was super interesting.

I had no idea you were doing this.

So I think it’s really cool

because I think for a lot of people,

enjoyment and happiness,

I don’t get enjoyment
in buying Netflix stock

and it going through the roof

just ’cause I knew Netflix was a good buy.

I get a hell of a lot more
enjoyment in buying sports cards

like from an investment standpoint.

You talked a lot about
enjoyment and happiness

in your LinkedIn post, I liked that,

and then I think for anybody else,

like I should be back
by the time he’s done

but John, like Dean, like
some of you, Old Man Lou,

if you wanna get in here,
like whatever, Mike Plia,

if you wanna sit here and talk about

how I yelled at your two years
ago to get in and you didn’t,

you didn’t, you didn’t, you
didn’t and like what the,

how you think about that?

Like just fill up the space
here for five minutes.

I’ll be right, right back.

It’s okay, it’s okay.

[Male] Well, I need your mics though.

Oh, you need the mics from me?

Got it, okay.

Okay, both of them?

No problem.

It’s fine.

I’ll be right back.

Five minutes max.

I’m excited about this, it’s going well.

Jim, you go first.

(group applauding and cheering)

Yeah, thank you.


This is certainly unplanned, for sure.

(group laughs)

So, good golly, so yeah,

I think the story that
Gary’s referring to is

I wrote a blog post on LinkedIn last week

and the main point was that Gary’s

been talking about sports cards for,

like he said, a year and
a half, couple years,

and I really hadn’t bought
in because, as he said,

I used to be the editor
of Beckett Baseball

back in the ’90’s and so I
was there when it crashed

and I saw a lot of hardworking
people lose their money

and were really hurt in it

and I wasn’t ready to get back into it

and then as I continue to
hear Gary talk about it,

it just started to make more sense to me

that now is an opportunity
because of that,

because we had seen the ’90’s

and we had seen what
overproduction looks like

and so now there was
probably a better opportunity

to invest in a smarter way.

So what I did was, being an older guy,

I talked to my wife and I said,

hey, I’d like to buy some cards

over the next five, six months.

I’m probably gonna spend
about $1,000, not a ton,

but $1,000 is not cheap,

it’s not nothing either in my house.

So, over that six months,
I just started buying,

Lou helped me along and
said, hey, you know,

a lot of people get invested
in Bowman paper rookies.

So I started looking at like
10, 11, 12 different rookies

in the 2019 Bowman set and said, look,

I’m gonna invest in 20, 50,
100, 20, 200 of these rookies

and sit on ’em for a
year and see how they do.

Now, so I started doing that
and then something happened

because the NBA All Star game came around

and I’m sitting there
watching the NBA All Star game

with my son, Will, and we
open up the DraftKings app

and I’m like, tell you what,

let’s put 10 bucks on this game.

It doesn’t matter.

Let’s put 10 bucks on it
and we broke it up into

a bunch of little $2 prop
bets throughout the game

and it was really fun.

We spent three hours
laughing, joking, yelling,

screaming about these
dumb little $2 prop bets

on the NBA All Star game
and had an absolute blast

and so what it triggered to
me or what it convinced me

was what Gary said was that

I had kind of demonized gambling as like,

oh, gambling’s bad.

No one should gamble, it’s terrible.

It’s like, yeah, it’s got some downsides.

You need to be really careful with it

but there was some opportunity to use it

in a very positive way to have some fun

and some enjoyment without going overboard

and that’s where I started

to think about cards that way too,

that you could invest in
cards without going overboard

and add a lot of enjoyment

with the people you share it with,

like your kids and you
could do it in a way

that you could decide your level of risk.

You could decide how
far you wanna be in it

and at the end, I feel like, yeah,

there’s a $1,000 I’ve
got in baseball cards

but those may or may not pay off

over the next year or two but, for sure,

I’ve had a ton of fun buying those cards,

researching those cards,
doing the analytics behind it.

Gary, I know you’re like always
talking about researching.

I’m not kidding you, the
research is the fun part.

Going through eBay and
looking at what’s available

and what it costs is the fun part and so,

whether that $1,000 pays off or not,

I feel like I’ve won either way.

So that’s how I chose to get back into it

and it’s a pretty limited fashion.

[Gary] Awesome, thanks for sharing.

(group applauding)

I don’t understand this level of support.

I don’t get claps.

(group laughs)

[Jim] It’s a rookie, it’s a rookie.

I’m really like upset about it.

All right, let’s get to the next question.

[Male] I don’t know the phone number

but I have a good question for you.

You don’t have the phone?

Okay, give me the question.

[Male] Why are you
buying so many base cards

as opposed to the number (muffled)?

Because I’m more educated on it.

I’m a little bit more
educated on base cards.

I understand that the one of ones,

like I understand that if I poured

that same level of money
into Giannis or Luka,

I probably could’ve made
a bigger financial return,

I just still don’t know where I,

so one of my biggest theories
is that this whole industry’s

about to get a lot bigger.

And so for me, there’s
not that many people

that can afford a $15,000 pair

of off white Nike Moma on Stock X

but there’s a lot of people
that can afford a $300,000 pair

and so for me, one of the
things I’m thinking about is,

if the masses come, how many
people are gonna be able

of afford a $4,000 Giannis
versus a lower end one.

It’s one of the reasons I’m
looking at really other things,

as you know I’m looking at the Hoops.

I’m looking at Hoops.

I wasn’t even thinking
about Hoops a year ago.

I’m like do some of these lower cost ones,

are they actually gonna be the market

because you’re getting an influx of people

and I just think that’s gonna be,

I think industry needs to
understand that the level

of the amount of people that
are getting in right now

are different.

They’re not hardcored hobbyists.

They’re the people that are
just like either like Jim,

and Alex and I getting back into it.

There’s a whole crew of like sneaker kids

and just like kids that
like sports and gambling

that are coming in which
is kind of a new dynamic

and I think they’ll be some
pros and cons from that.

For me, base has been a place that I,

one of the things that I tell everybody,

please pay attention to this a lot of you.

Spend 30 to 40 to 50 hours
of searching eBay completed,

read articles, read Twitter.

There’s so many people that
interact with me on Twitter

that are both saying I’m
good and saying I’m bad

that have a lot of good things to say

that are wildly, wildly educated.

One thing that I always
tell my brand is like, look,

you can’t look at yesterday

to know what tomorrow’s gonna bring.

So a lot of people who’ve
been in the business

for the last 20 years
or have been collecting

for the last 20 years are
applying old dynamics.

So they’re like oh,

these populations numbers
are amazingly high,

9,000 PSA 10’s.

The problem is that there’s 40,000 people,

like I said earlier, that want it.

That’s gonna throw off supply and demand,

when there used to only be 1,000 Trouts

but only 400 people
wanted it, that’s that.

If there’s 10,000 Trouts
but 50,000 that want it,

I don’t think people are gonna be able

to calibrate the demand.

This is what always happens.

This is why people thought
Facebook was overpriced

as a stock and I thought
it was underpriced.

This is why real estate always happens.

They’re like, oh we missed it.

Like a lot of you right
now think you missed it,

like fuck this, bullshit,
Luka went from 35 to 600.

Meanwhile, but what if
it’s actually 2,000?

Or please understand, what if it’s 2,000,

and then Luka has a Paul George, like, oh,

I thought about this the other day.

Paul George was on his way.

You wanna talk about a guy

I would’ve poured real money into,

it was the Paul George a month
before his horrific injury.

I would’ve lost.

Now, for me, it’s less loss
’cause I’m playing long.

Like the only gambling I’m really doing,

’cause the National is every July,

I’m gambling with young
baseball ’cause young baseball’s

fun for me like I can
get more into baseball.

I’m trying to be better at fantasy

’cause the last couple years
I’ve been like too busy.

So it’s gonna force me
to be better at fantasy.

This is all personal.

It’s back to Alex, back to Jim.

Why am I investing in young baseball?

It makes me pay attention to fantasy more

and I’m in a 30 year now
league with these guys

and I wanna get better
’cause last couple of years

I’ve fallen off ’cause I’m busy as shit.

Number two, the National
is like now becoming like

my Disney World trip.

I can’t wait ’til Atlantic City in July

and like going to that
National, what’s happening then?

Baseball, hardcore
baseball’s happening there.

So if Alonso’s got fucking 32
homers by the time, late July,

that’s gonna matter at the show

and so like that’s why
baseball’s interesting to me.

It’s really not in the scheme
of like a 30 year window

the way I’m investing because, you know,

you could be a great player
and not really matter

30 years later.

I think Dr. J and Kareem
are in a better place

than Pete Rose or Roberto
Clemente, long term.

I have a pack of wrestling cards here.

I’m a, I really like wrestling.

I do like wrestling cards.

I haven’t bought a lot, I have like 30.

(phone ringing)

[Female] Dan.


Oh Mr. Fuji was the fucking best.

(phone ringing)

[Male] Hello?

Dan, it’s Gary Vaynerchuk.

Let’s go.

[Dan] Hey, what’s

I pulled a Randy the
Macho Man Savage, bro.

I’m super fucking pumped.

(group laughs)

Let’s go.

Don the Rock, go ahead.

Go ahead, my man.

[Dan] Yeah, I was gonna say,

so with all the rising costs

Dan, right?

[Dan] Or not costs but
rising sales of sports cards

that we’re seeing pretty
much go up day after day now.


[Dan] Especially in
basketball and baseball,

do you think that we’re
running any sort of risk

of a bubble burst or do
you think we’re just

Of course I do.

[Dan] Creating a new floor?

I, I

[Dan] And then

Please, go ahead.

[Dan] Oh, I’m sorry,

and then I wanna say to also just kind of

rant off of that too, in my opinion,

I think that this new
floor is gonna price out

certain people that are trying
to jump in to collecting

but I think that’s gonna open
up a world of the TSA nines

and dare I even say like BGS
8.5s becoming sellable grades?

Or, or, I bought 104, was it?

I bought 104 Luka Hoops
PSA 10s because I’m like,

or the secondary sets become
more interesting, right?

So to your point, is it gonna
be a PS nine Prizm world

or is it gonna be a world
where some of the second

and third tier price stuff
goes up on their PSA 10s?

I don’t know but I think you’re right.

I think that just like art,

I don’t know if you guys heard

but there’s hundred million
dollar art paintings

and then there’s art you
can buy for $90 on Iconic,

you know what I mean?

Like there’s a range and so to your point,

what I don’t know and I
haven’t really figured out yet,

for me, for my investment
strategy is it PSA nine,

and you know, I think, listen,
I’ll be honest with you.

Just like the rookie changes that matters,

the number one thing
I’m trying to figure out

is in 14 years if PSA
is not the leading brand

and SGC or BGS is,

could you imagine if you and
I went into a time machine

and 14 years from now a
BGS 9.5 carried more weight

than a PSA 10?

[Dan] (laughs)

Just think about the
price difference today.

Like what if, like
we’re relying on brands.

I’ll be very frank with you.

One of the things that’s
really got my attention

is I just like the way an
SGC case with its black looks

compared to its PSA counterpart
and I also have found

from what I’ve submitted that
SGC’s been more difficult

on their grading, makes me
wonder if SGC has some upside.

It could also go out of business tomorrow

’cause it’s a small company.

So I think you’re,

I think what everyone’s
about to figure out

is do PS nine in modern, is that the arb?

Or is it Topps regular, is it, you know,

I bought a bunch of Bazooka, seven, four?

How many Bazooka, I wanna
be really transparent.

[Male] It’s like 11.

I bought 11 Bazooka LeBron rookie cards

because I’m like, well,

if the fucking Chrome is gonna be 20,000

and people start coming in
droves and they want a LeBron,

they’re gonna have to look at other stuff.

I mean, I think the Topps
regular rookie cards

are a fucking arbitrage.

I’m buying a ton of Durant Topps regular.

I’m buying Curry Topps regular.

I’m buying LeBron Topps regular.

I think the Topps regulars’
a very interesting

basketball card from that one
little era when they had it

and to your point, if these, I mean,

if a fucking Luka’s $2,000
next year in a PSA 10 Prizm,

that is so out, I mean, that’s game over.

How the fuck are you gonna
be able to afford that?

[Dan] Right, then you get PSA 10

By the way, by the way,

let me throw something I’ve never thought

about which is why I like doing Q&A,

what if Raw comes back
heavy because of it?

[Dan] It might!

It might!

Again, back to some of the heat

I’m taking from the establishment,
I don’t think I’m right,

I think I’m just
communicating alternatives

that may happen if I’m
right about something

I do think I’m right about

which is a drove of interest is coming.

[Dan] Agreed.

I mean, I’m getting DMs
from card store owners,

ones that make fun of me
but then hit me up quietly

on the backend.

People at local shows
seeing levels of interest

that we’ve never seen before.


[Dan] Yeah, no, I mean,
I agree especially on the,

I mean in my opinion as we
see stuff like LeBron Chrome

or the Luka Prizms,

I mean the Luka’s Prizms are
going up like crazy right now

so I think we are gonna
see a lot of opportunity

with the Optic which is
starting to get kind of crazy

but also now I think PSA 10, who

And by the way, by the way,
I apologize for interrupting,

Optic, the population on PSA 10 Optic

is like a thousand something
and the Panini is like,

and the Prizm, excuse me,
is like 8,000 on the Luka?

[Male] 11,000.

11,000, right?

So like, you know like,

and it looks like the
Optics are tough to grade.

You know, that’s the other thing.

Look, there’s a lot of things
that haven’t been figured out.

I think 2012 Prizm is
gonna go through the roof

once people realize
production numbers, like,

it’s LeBron’s first Heat.

Like there’s just a lot of
shit I’m trying to figure out.

There’s a lot and a lot,
it’s a very exciting,

and not exciting time in sports cards

depending on where you sit.

If you like the way it always was,

you’re probably frustrated.

If you’re excited about
new dynamics happening,

it’s an incredible time.

I like what’s happening with Alex

who called earlier and Jim.

I think this thing brings
a lot of happiness.

I think people buy and sell and collect

a lot of things on earth.

I think sports cards are
special because, yes,

comic books are safer and
Ironman doesn’t get hurt

but you have to wait three
years for something to happen

to a comic book.

A new movie comes out.

Sports cards, if Juan Soto
hits two homers opening day,

I’m gonna be losing my fucking mind.

Don’t let Luka, don’t
let Luka singlehandedly

put his team on his
back and create an upset

in the first round of the NBA playoffs.

You think Luka’s expensive now?

Do not let him drop 52 in a game seven

and they beat whoever
that they’re lower seed of

’cause they’re like,
don’t let that happen!

Do not let that happen.

Do not let Luka drop 52 in game
seven against a better team

and knock them out because this hobby

is gonna lose their fucking mind.

On the flip side

[Dan] I think more and more people

Paul George.

[Dan] I’m sorry.

No, I’m sorry,

I’m just getting excited
because I think people think,

people think they’re
right or I think I’m right

or other people, there is no right.

First of all, it’s sports.

Fucking Calhoun who I think’s
gonna have a breakout year

got hit in the face with
a fast ball yesterday.

Fractured his fucking face.

Everybody went crazy on Acuna,

what if Acuna tears his
labrum on opening day?


That’s why I really like basketball

’cause I think old basketball players

are the closest thing to superheroes.

My favorite one that Lou makes fun of me

of buying all the time is this
card right, I gotta find it.

Where is it?

Where is it?

Where is it?

There it is.

I love this card, George Gervin, ’74,

The Iceman, The Iceman!

All I need is one Netflix
documentary on this guy

and this card goes from 180 to 800, right?

So like everyone’s
playing different angles.

I don’t know, make sense?

[Dan] Makes sense.

Good luck, brother.


[Dan] All right.

All right, let’s keep it going.

Weird Jordans excite me.

I think this is one of the
most interesting cards,

like this is a, look how big this,

this you could like hang in like your,

I mean I hate this fucker but, Bryan?

I think that’s super underpriced.

(phone rings)

There’s just not that
many of them, Interlake.

(phone rings)

Love this card.


Hogan rookie.

(phone rings)

[Female Announcer] Your
call has been forwarded to

Then there’s debating, I’m like,

I’m looking at this like,
this is a fucking eight,

not a seven, gotta resubmit.

Let’s go to the next one.

While we’re going to the next one,

A keem M bine ’cause I think
Africa is gonna be a continent

on the global map in 30 years.

I’m buying this card
for 30 years from now,

not to mention he’s one of the
15 best players of all time

and it’s grossly underpriced, I, I think.

(phone rings)

Meanwhile like I love hockey
but I can’t get that excited,

a couple here and there.

Bryan, nope?


[Male] What is up?

What is up, bro?

[Male] John?

No, Steinmetz.

Steinmetz, I’m sorry, I apologize.

How are you?

[Steinmetz] I am good, bro.

Good, bro, what’s your question?

[Steinmetz] I don’t know why

I felt like you were gonna call me.

You knew it.

[Steinmetz] All right, my question is,

I did, I told you, I was like you know,

(muffled) three times, three
times and for some reason

you don’t seem like a masochist,
I don’t know why, (laughs).

Let’s do it.

[Steinmetz] My question
is, yes, (muffled).


[Steinmetz] Yeah?

What’s your question, brother?

[Steinmetz] So for someone
who has been like $100,

you know, not too much money and they,

’cause I’m not too into sports,
I don’t watch like that.

I like playing sports but
I don’t like to watch it.


So how do I kind of,

how would I try to make money
when I don’t invest the time

to really know the
players, know what goes on?

You shouldn’t.

[Steinmetz] Shouldn’t, yeah,

that’s what I was
thinking this whole time.

Yeah, I mean,

look just ’cause I think
there’s an opportunity here,

I think there’s an opportunity
in a lot of places.

I think with the coronavirus,

there’s a ton of opportunity right now

in the stock market as stocks decline.

I think there’s a ton of
opportunity in opportunity zones

in New Jersey like Patterson and Newark.

I think there’s opportunities everywhere!

I think there’s opportunities,
by the way, maybe,

do you like Pokemon?

[Steinmetz] I used to love Pokemon.

I haven’t played in awhile but I loved it.

Well, bro, that’s your answer.

Pokemon cards are outpacing sports cards.

Get all in on Pokemon.

Buy your first Pokemon for 60 bucks.

Then for 25 hours of homework,
watch it go up to 130,

then flip it, take that
130, buy the next one,

and two years later, you
got something brewing.

[Steinmetz] I don’t know why

I never thought of Pokemon cards.

I heard you talk about it but I never,

I just never let it click for some reason.

Bro, I would heavily
spend 20 to 40 hours

studying Pokemon, completed items on eBay,

read the articles that
you search on Google.

Find some people on Twitter that know,

get on a phonecall, learn, go to a show,

learn, learn, learn, and then decide oh,

this weird character I think is underrated

’cause I think it’s just really cool

and a lot of people in the
Pokemon community care about it

and I bet you it’s gonna go up in price.

[Steinmetz] Yeah, ’cause I can do that.

That’s a lot easier to do.

I can do that.

That’s your answer, brother.

This is self awareness game, like I, like,

but it also is what are you trying to do?

Like I know football
cold but I think football

has too many injuries and skilled players,

defensive players, forget
it, their cards never go up,

and even receivers and
running backs, I think,

are underpriced and not
really getting there

so it becomes a quarterback
game only and so like,

to me, I know baseball
because of my fantasy league,

and I know basketball because it just,

by far the one that I most believe in,

and so that’s where I’m playing but like,

I’m gonna bet with my heart.

I’m gonna spend a good
5% of my money and energy

on Sam Darnold ’cause I believe

and I’m betting with my heart so like,

I think you need to do
around your interests

and it sounds like Pokemon’s
a lot better than sports

and that’s what’s gonna matter.

[Steinmetz] Yeah, ’cause I was wondering

’cause I never got into
all, I was like, ah,

it would be too much work and I just,

it just wouldn’t be fun for me

but now I don’t know why I just never

The number two, number two
is the most important part,

work is required to be
right about anything.

Like work is required
but if not fun, be out.

Like I’m petrified that
people invest in sports cards

and don’t know anything
about it, don’t enjoy it.

I’d rather them be like Jim
and like get deep enjoyment

on buying Bowman paper of
prospects for two years from now

’cause he gets enjoyment on
it even though that might not

be the best ROI.

Like I get enjoyment out
of, is it Mookie Betts?

Is it Bellinger?

Is it Rendon?

Is it Trevor Story?

Is it Ari’ando?

What’s the Colorado effect, what’s not?

Like I love, these are
nerdy things I think about.

Like Gavin Lux on a stacked team versus,

what’s the impact of the
Astros’ cheating scandal?

Is Yordan gonna be good?

Is Bregman gonna be good?

Is Altuve gonna be good,
are they not gonna be good?

Because guess what?

If Yordan goes and hits 12
homers in the first two weeks

and everyone’s like
okay, well it’s not that,

then it’s gonna explode
and pass fucking Tatis

and fucking Vlad and everybody else.

So there’s, nobody’s talking about Yordan

in baseball right now
because it’s all hovered over

the Astros thing but he hit
a fucking trillion homers

in the minors last year.

I drafted him in our
fantasy league, I know.

They weren’t doing that shit
in the minors, I don’t think,

even though Lou’s favorite team’s

got some real allegations against it.

I know that gets our personally upset.

All right, brother, thanks for the call.

Let’s go to the next one.

Yeah, I just think there’s
a ton of arbitrages.

Then there’s young guys, Jo Adell.

People think he’s gonna be the best.

This Rock rookie, I’m super excited about,

like these are things I’m thinking about.

Like the Bellinger thing to me is like,

the Dodgers could be stacked.

Dodgers could be stupid
good this year and it’s LA

and they love the fucking Dodgers,

pitching, yeah, do they have the pitching?

But like their hitters
are gonna fucking hit.

And it’s momentum.

One of the things I’m seeing the most of

is momentum right now.

Like people, this like,

way and above what I’m
talking about on Twitter,

there’s a lot going on with sports cards

that I think people need to recognize

and I think it’s just beginning.

I think the sneaker kids
and the gambling kids

are gonna drive the
shit out of this market.

Sneaker kids, gambling kids,
dads, that are on the re ,

that’s a lot of demand that
didn’t exist 24 months ago.

[Male] Hello?


[Dustin] Yes.

It’s Gary Vee, how are you?

[Dustin] Hey, Gary.

How you doing?

I’m well.

I’m enjoying this livestream.

What can I answer for you?

[Dustin] Yeah, it’s been
really good, yeah, my question

Real quick, I apologize, Dustin,

I’m gonna do some rapid
fire at some point,

I’m gonna do that on Twitter
so ask your questions,

if you’re watching on any
stream, go to Twitter,

ask your questions, I’m gonna
have Lou, at some point,

we’re gonna do a rapid fire
that I’ll take from Twitter

but go ahead, how are you?

[Dustin] Yeah, no, I’m doing good.

My question was,


As you kinda get back
into collecting cards,

if it’s something that you know,

like I’m a big baseball guy,

so is it better to kind of
focus up just on baseball

by itself or is it better to
get kind of universal knowledge

in all the sports that are out there?

It’s back to self awareness.

So, for example, do you
have, you as a human,

are you excited about the
notion to care about football,

hockey, basketball more?

Like does that excite you?

Do you have like a best friend
who’s a huge basketball fan

but you could never get into it

because one of the
rationales is one of the ways

to really get into the sport
is to start collecting it

’cause basketball I do think
is the most interesting thing

to invest in and then, all of a sudden,

you care about who De’Aaron
Fox or Jaren Jackson or John,

like you, you can sucker your
way into caring a lot more

about basketball and the
reason you did it was macro,

you thought it was the best investment

and your best friend, Brandon,

is a huge basketball fan

and you wanted to have more
interest and, oh by the way,

basketball’s a good offset to baseball.

Now you’re covering
365 days a year in like

caring about sports.

Do you see what I mean?

[Dustin] Yeah, so it’s for me it’s just,

I’m from St. Louis so,
obviously, a baseball town,

and don’t have a basketball
team and football team left

so it’s always been kind
of a baseball focus but,

no, it’s definitely,

it’s always interested
me with other sports

but baseball’s kind of
just been where it’s at

the last few years.

Look, with baseball
there’s demand coming in

so top 15 players which
I rattled off earlier,

the debate of how underpriced
or not underpriced are they.

Number two, and your farm
system has been stacked

for year so you’re probably proud of this,

the youngsters with Bowman
and their first Topps

is a lot of, it’s a very fun game.

Like you know, and then more importantly,

not betting with your heart, right?

Not getting caught on
Dylan Carlson or like,

not getting caught with your heart

the way I am with Darnold.

Being smart, not buying
Nico because he’s a Cub

because you hate him or
Herrera ’cause he’s a Brewer

’cause you hate ’em.

Like you have to be
unemotional when you’re dealing

with your monies.

[Dustin] Yeah, no, that
completely makes sense and,

like I said, you’ve,

the kind of the fire of the market

has been really intriguing
the last few weeks

and getting back into the
hobby so this is all good stuff

to learn and mark down so I appreciate it.

Do me a favor.

Get very educated.

Do you understand the grading companies?

Do you understand the different
companies that make cards.

Do you understand before
you start betting and then,

more importantly, why are you doing it?

Do you want it to be a hobby?

Do you enjoy the games more?

Do you wanna make a flip?

Do you wanna teach your
kid entrepreneurship?

Do you want to have a
hobby that is profitable?

Most hobbies cost money.

Like if you love skiing
or if you love hunting,

or if you like, most things cost money.

This is a hobby that you could break even

or even make money.

That’s kind of intriguing.

And a lot of people are
gambling to make sports more fun

which is very, very, very low reward.

No matter how much people
tell you they’re winning,

they’re losing.

Gambling sucks.

It’s an entertainment
but you’re paying for it

whereas this can make
sports a lot more fun

and the downside is much
lower than the upside.

[Dustin] Yeah, like you said,

you never know when someone can get hurt,

someone can get injured and
then you move on from there

and you suck a bunch of
money into it and it’s gone.

And you know what could be fun?

You know, like it could be fun
to like, if you know, listen,

an average baseball game on July 9th,

not necessarily the thing that’s
gonna get your juices going

but when you are all in on
Acuna and now the Braves

are coming to town,

you’re gonna watch those three
games a little bit harder.

[Dustin] Right.

Yeah, no, that completely
makes sense, Gary.

I definitely appreciate all the info.

Happy to do it, brother.

Take care.

What livestream is that?

[Male] Instagram.

What’s good, Instagram?

Let me do this, real quick.

Go ahead, Lou.

I’m gonna bring somebody on real quick,

my Instagram for one second.

Go live with, let’s see.

Nope, Caesar doesn’t want it.

If you wanna go live with me real quick,

I’m about to bring you in.


Zion’s gonna blow out his knees
within two years. (laughs)

That would be bad.

That would make me super sad but, yo!

[Male] Oh my God, Gary!

What’s good?

[Male] Hang on a sec.

Let me turn this off real quick.


I just wanted to say what’s up.

[Male] Whoa, brother, wow,
it’s a pleasure, it’s an honor.

I’m from Brazil.

Huge fan of yours, your content, working,

I’m passionate about fish,
fly fishing specifically.

It’s a very small market here in Brazil.


So now I’m trying to
approach it in a, in English.

Just gotta try it in English
and I tried Facebook ads.

I’m doing a fly fishing
course to help beginners

get into the sport.

You’re selling that course?

[Male] Yes, I am.

The number one mistake that people make

in social media marketing
is their ads are just sales,

not amplifying quality content

before you get them into the funnel.

[Male] Okay, I gotcha.

I’ve made a free training to add value

But you have to make
sure that the free training

is actually free training
not you subconsciously

using that as a funnel to make them pay.

[Male] I gotcha, I gotcha.

You’ve mentioned it before.

And I’m mentioning it

right to your fucking face right now.

It’s very important, bro.

Everyone’s like I want
to be like you, Gary V.

I’m like, don’t create
funnels to charge people.

Just work on legacy,
then it will come to you.

It’s very fucking important.

When you’re making a course,

it’s impossible to not
try to sell the course.

[Male] Yes.

I don’t wanna talk about sports cards

because I wanna flip these
cards and make less money

in the flip than I make
in one fucking speech,

I want everybody who’s fucking watching

to make money and be happier.

[Male] Oh my God, yeah, yeah.

Totally, totally got it.

You need to not worry
about you making sales

in fly fishing,

you gotta educate the
masses at scale for free

about how epic fly fishing is
and then it will come to you.

[Male] I gotcha, I gotcha.

I think, I’ve made a
podcast in Portuguese.

More, more, more.

[Male] Yeah, yeah,
yeah, more on everything.

Just Gary, thank you very much, man!

I admire you.

You’re welcome, brother.

Thank you, I admire you back.

Keep going.

I admire anybody who’s going for it.

All right, let’s keep it going.

This is fun.

[Lou] Alex.


(phone rings)

(phone rings)

You getting questions on Twitter?


[Male] Sorry I can’t
get to the phone right now

but leave me a voicemail
and I’ll get back to you

as soon as possible, thank you.

[Female Announcer] The mailbox
is full and cannot accept

any messages at this time, goodbye.

(group groans)

Oh! Lou was right, I’m devastated.

I wanted to leave an angry voicemail.

Who’s, while Lou pulls up
long form questions, Rog off,

why don’t you go on Twitter
and just rattle off questions

during this dead air time so
we can just get as many answers

as possible ’cause we’re
not getting to the volume

that I want in these calls.

[Male] Someone asked you,
what’s your most prized card

of all time?

My most prized card is
sitting somewhere here.

It’s a 1990 Frank Thomas Leaf rookie

because that was like the prized,

everybody loved the Griffey
Upper Deck rookie but for me,

I was in my prime when ’90 Leaf Thomas,

which came a year later,

there was just something about that Leaf

that took the whole Upper
Deck thing up a notch

and I just also liked Frank Thomas more.

I also bet on Frank Thomas in ’90 Score,

the one with his big face on it.

I bought tons of those before
he hit the major leagues

and was like right about him
so I felt a bigger association

to The Big Hurt, than I did Griffey.

So ’90 Frank Thomas is
an emotional card for me.

You got some stuff?

I’ll get into Rob and
then we’ll just do a bunch

and then that’s how we’ll
go, that’s how we’ll go.

(phone ringing)

[Male] Hello?

Rob, it’s Gary Vaynerchuk.

[Rob] Oh!

What the fuck (laughs),
what’s going on, pal?

Life is good, Rob. (chuckles)

(group laughs)

[Rob] I’m watching you live (muffled).

I appreciate it, man.

What’s your question?

[Rob] So what do you,
I want to take this,

I don’t even think it
was a trend, you know,

back then it was hyped
like crazy for years

and then it dropped off
the face of the earth

for a little while and now it’s
back and it seems like it’s,

I mean it seems like
it’s stronger than ever.

It is, but there’s no way

[Rob] My question is, how long

Yeah, I don’t know.

[Rob] Go ahead, I’m sorry.

I have no idea when it ends.

[Rob] Okay.

Number two, I think it will drop off

the face of the earth.

It trends.

It’s like long hair for
guys, then short hair.

It’s like jeans that are tight
then jeans that are baggy.

People have to understand, this is trends.

Things go up, things go down.

It’s why I want people to invest in LeBron

and invest in Jordan and invest in Brady

and invest in things
that are like Evergreen

because you’re gonna
get killed if you decide

to bet on Trae Young,

Trae doesn’t end up being
an all time top 25 player,

and then the market collapses,

you’re gonna be fucking finished.

Now, in the meanwhile

[Rob] Of course.

You can make a fortune
on Trae if the market

is super hot for six years

or if Trae becomes Steph
Curry in perpetuity.

This is why I keep
telling people, be smart.

Like as fun as it is to like
bet on Gavin Lux or Mize,

you don’t know that yet.

I know Mookie, I know
Mookie Betts is on his way.

I know that Trout is a layup,
is maybe the all time player.

I know that LeBron,

there’s nothing that can happen to LeBron.

[Rob] Exactly.

At this point in his
career, if he goes downhill,

it doesn’t matter.

It’s why I think Barkley and Hakeem

and some of those rookies
are in a really good spot

for the next 20 year from now

and basketball’s at the apex but, like,

if you wanna bet, I’m
betting on De’Aaron Fox.

That’s me betting, I’m having fun.

I think you know, but I could be,

but I look at that as going to zero.

[Rob] Yeah, yeah.

And so I just think
people have to have a,

like of course it’s gonna go down.

The question is, are we only
20% of the way of it going up

or are we 90%?

I don’t know but what I will
tell you is that gambling,

lessons learned, I’m very curious,

I have no knowledge of
what Panini and Topps

and Upper Deck are thinking,

like how are the gonna
manage their productions?

There’s always the
manipulation of the one of ones

and the one of 10s, like you’d
have to think those play out.

The biggest variable’s injuries.

Look, I’ve said it 18
months ago or 15 months ago,

I think Luka could be an all time

25 best player of all time.

[Rob] Yeah, I agree, I agree.

He could or he may not!

But like if he does, I promise you this,

his rookie cards right now are underpriced

20 years from today, I promise.

[Rob] You think?

Of course, you know how I know that?

Looking at the last 60 years.

Jordan rookies were
underpriced at the height

and the collapse of sports
cards the last time around.

[Rob] True, very true.

Magic Johnson rookie cards, Magic, Bird,

this card?

Grossly underpriced,

15 years ago at the
super hype of the market.

It just depends on a
couple different variables.

Now you get into will
SGC be bigger than BGS

than bigger than PSA in 25 years?

I don’t know.

Will Prizm still be

[Rob] To me, PSA seems
to have a lock going on.

Yeah, PSA, PSA does seem to have a lock.

I just know that things change.

[Rob] Of course!

No, of course, anything can happen.

You know like, or it stays forever.

By the way, you know who else had a lock?

ABC and NBC and then Netflix came along.

[Rob] (laughs) Yeah.

Like shit changes.

[Rob] Yep, or Amazon came along

and took everybody out, too.

The home and gardening
seal of approval, the,

what was that fucking thing?

What was the thing that made
the wines go through the roof?

What was the magazine that was

[Lou] The Wine Spectator.

No, well, that’s a good one.

In my wine world, Wine
Spectator, Robert Parker,

like mattered the most and now they don’t,

they’ve evolved.

Things change.

Things change and sports cards people

have to get very, very concerned

and be very thoughtful
of what could change?

For example, the reason I think stickers,

which I have about,

how many stickers do you
think I bought, 40, more?

[Lou] Sure.

No, no, I don’t know.

[Lou] 50, 60.

Oh, so different.

[Lou] I was being nice.

Fair enough.

What’s the number?

[Lou] 60.


Like I could be very wrong
about Panini stickers

from basketball in the
80’s and 90’s going up.

I just think they will

because I think soccer’s gonna matter more

and when people look back
at soccer in 20 years

and look at the Panini
stickers being the real one,

I don’t know, I don’t know if,

I think that’s gonna impact
the value of stickers

and stickers might become
something that people wanna,

that was my big thesis on Jordan stickers.

Like the Jordan rookie sticker, I thought,

was underpriced ’cause I
think it’s just as hard,

if not harder to grade
and the same supply,

like I don’t understand why
it should be so much less

than the base.

[Rob] Yeah, I agree.

It doesn’t make sense
that it’s so much less

than the regular Jordan rookie.

But the hobby decided,
the hobby may decide,

listen to me right now, you could buy,

you could buy fucking Luka rookies

at 1,000 in a couple months

’cause that’s what it’s
at on Prizm, right?

He could go on to be a
top 40 player of all time,

super popular, 12 to 20
year run, it locks in,

but what if the hobby in
20 years decides that Optic

was the actual rookie?

[Rob] Yeah, the better one.

You’re right.

Who the hell knows.

This is, this is where I’m
going so I think it’s just,

everyone has to play their
portfolios and, by the way,

what if you’re just a collector
and you don’t give a shit?

Then buy raw Hoops.

Like if you just wanna collect,
buy raw fucking Hoops Zions.

[Rob] That was my next question,

that was my next question for you.

What do you think about, I mean, for me,

I like to only buy, or
I try to buy graded.

You know, it’s just something that I just,

I don’t know, I just feel like the raw,

I mean it’s such a discrepancy in price.

I mean, or even if I get Raw graded,

why would you not, I mean,
you have a $10 base card raw

and then then you grade the
thing and it gets a 10 from PSA

and it’s worth 200.

I mean it doesn’t even make
sense not to spend the money

and grade it.

I’m not good enough yet to
look through an eBay listing,

Stock X listing, Com C listing
and know if I’m looking

at a nine or 10 and probably
will never get there.

If I was still in high school,

I would’ve fucking only did that

’cause I would’ve known my
shit ’cause I got D’s and F’s

and I would’ve focused
on it the whole time,

I would’ve become as good as graders

’cause I would’ve been
fucking focused on that

and all I would do is go
to shows and look at eBay’s

zoomed in pictures and
buy 10s raw and slab ’em.

I just don’t have that
skillset and I don’t think

I have that ability right now

’cause I don’t have enough
time to get good at it

and so I’m gonna play the
premium on the 15 year old me

who’s gonna buy them for raw and slab ’em

and make a huge arbitrage on me

and I’m gonna make arbitrages
on all these theories

that I think.

[Rob] Yeah, no, yeah, yeah.

I just wanted your take on that.

My take is I’m fucking pissed
that I don’t have the time

or the skill to do it
’cause I’d only buy raw

and slab the fuck out of it.

[Rob] Well, that’s what I do.

I’m fucking impressed.

[Rob] I do subbing for PSA.

I have a group and

That’s awesome.

[Rob] I see a lot of
shit so through the years,

I’ve come to know what to look for

Hell yeah.

Just like, just like I’m an
outsider in people’s opinions

even though I grew up in it,

I’m an outsider but I see things

that nobody in the card world can see

because that’s who I am in
marketing and human behavior

outside of it.

I’m coming up with hot takes
like the Panini sticker thing,

like wrestling, I’m seeing
shit that people don’t see,

’cause that’s what I’m fucking great at.

That’s why I invested in
Facebook, Twitter, and Tumblr

before anybody saw it.

That’s why I fucking win.

[Rob] Good, that’s great.

That’s why I follow you.

That’s why I take photos
with fucking rappers

that nobody’s heard of
and then two years later,

they’re the biggest in the game.

That’s what I’m fucking good at.

[Rob] Everyone’s got their
niche and you got your shit.

You got it, brother.

Thank you so much.

Keep going.

[Rob] No prob, thanks a lot.

Love that dude.

Fire away some rapid fire.

[Male] What do you
think about investing


[Male] What do you think
about investing in junk wax

Era stub that’s also PSA 10?

I think whoever asked
that question’s smart.

I’ve been looking at Larry
Walker rookie cards at a 10.

I think that supply and demand,

if all these 40 year
old dads come back in,

all of a sudden ’84
Mattinglys and ’86, you know,

Reggie Whites and I think there’s a huge,

I haven’t done the full homework

but one of my new hypothesis

is junk wax PSA 10s, BGS 9.5s, SGC 10s.

I just haven’t done enough
homework on how much quantity

is out there and how
much perception of demand

do I think will be there but
there will be uptick in demand.

I just don’t know how
egregious the supply is.

Is there a million Mattinglys?

Is, you know, how many are sitting raw,

haven’t been graded yet?

I mean these Acuna and Luka numbers

are gonna go through the roof

over the next fucking couple months.

Like cool that it’s 8,000 now,

what about when it’s 16,000 in a month?

Cool, I’m excited about
Optic Luka at 1,000,

I have a funny feeling it’s about 3,000

in the next month or two or three or four

so that’s what I’m looking at.

Give me one more and
then Lou will come in.


[Male] This guy asked
about Nascar trading cards.

What do you think?

I’m, I think Nascar’s
got a very small niche

and I’m sure Nascar and
many other sub things

have their little markets.

It’s not something I’m passionate about

or knowledgeable enough to answer.

[Male] I have a dumb question.

You have a question?

[Male] Yeah.

Well, go.

[Male] Can these things be like fake?


[Male] So there are
people that sell like

There’s fake art and coins.

[Male] Right.

There’s fake Supremes and Yezzys.

[Male] Is there a way to like tell

The trust in these three
companies is the whole game

which is why when we hear
about people trimming cards

that are older and like
submitting them and getting,

like that’s a dangerous
thing because of the trust.

That’s how PSA or BGS or
SGC or a fourth player,

or a technology that comes around

that doesn’t use human
being and just scans it,

inevitably with the
way technology’s going,

if you told me in seven
years, a company came along,

it doesn’t run by humans, you insert it,

it is 100% figuring out
cardboard arbitrage and all this

and it guarantees that it’s not fake

and we all believe that’s better,

that kills all three of these companies!

And all of a sudden I’m
submitting my, this,

and it’s coming back as
7.3 and I’m like, you know,

like shit changes!

Of course it can be fake.

A human being decides.

We’ve trusted these companies
to be better than the masses

but there’s all sorts of
weird shit that can happen.

It’s humans.

It’s why I hate the Olympics,

a human’s judging it.

It’s why I hate reviews in companies,

a human’s judging it but
that’s the way the world works.

Until a computer comes
along and takes away

the human element,

we’re gonna always debate
if the companies are good

at grading or not.

[Lou] Can you explain
trimming a little bit more?

So I’m not the most
educated in trimming.

So let me start by saying
that but very simply,

super old cards from 1948,

some people will actually go
in with a razor or, I guess?

And like

[Lou] Like tenths of an inch.

Yeah, like a tenth of an
inch which makes the corner

go from fluffy to like
tighter and if a human

on the other side can’t see it,

they’ll grade it a five
instead of a four or a seven

instead of a four and that can change

the price value enormously.

It’s a very, very, very
scary thing that, you know,

you have to trust that the government

which has been paying
attention to this more

and the companies are policing themselves.

PSA, BGS, AKA Beckett,

and SGC and then even the
smaller players are the ones

that are thinking about
getting into the game,

they have to realize, no
different than the Wine Spectator,

no different than anything
else in the world,

the people that grade
comic books, this world,

I’m sure, has the same thing.

I’m less educated but like,

it’s you’re only as good
as your actual truth.

That, PSA goes out of business

if everybody stops believing them.

So they don’t want it to happen

but humans are on the other side.

Humans can be bought.

A basketball ref threw games, right?

Like the integrity of this,
why is Pete Rose banned?

Like gambling on the games,
the Astros thing, the Patriots,

like all this stuff is about

how much do you respect the thing?

Olympic judges, have you
seen what the Russian judges

have done through the last 50 years?

We live in a society
that’s flawed with humans

and just figuring out where
that plays out and like

that’s way above my opinion
but like, older cards,

there’s some playing.

The new stuff, it’s a lot easier,

’cause all this comes out of the factory

in a much better place.

There’s no reason to do that.

Things that are 70 fucking
years old, 80 years old.

Listen, a 10 of this is
$50,000, a nine is 9,000.

That’s a $41,000 swing.

That’s gonna lead to
people doing bad things

just like in everything.

Gambling in every,

you don’t think there’s
fucking shady people right now

trying to convince kids
in college basketball

to throw games?

Why do you think gambling is so scary?

So there’s always, I mean, bad acting.

Wall Street, these
fuckers go, like there’s,

but what percentage at what
and to me, I’m unemotional,

like to me it’s like if a company,

if all three of these
rating companies disappear

then that’s what needed to
be done for the greater good.

Like that’s what can happen.

[Lou] Alex.

People buy fake Yezzys everyday.

(phone rings)

Human, real life, cards are
just like every other thing.

(phone rings)

Fake gold.

Fake diamond rings.

Fake art.

[Male] Hello?


[Alex] Yeah, this is Alex.

This is Gary Vaynerchuk.

[Alex] Gary, what’s up?

Life is good, bro, how are you?

[Alex] I’m doing great.

I’m watching you on livestream,

live basically putting information

into for live trading card score,

I’m just trying to relay my value.

That’s very nice, thank you for that.

I know there’s a bunch of discord groups

that are really rocking and rolling.

[Alex] Yeah, it’s been a
lot of fun just participating

and just trying to help
some of the new investors

or collectors just learn
more about the hobby and

It’s, one of the reasons,

the reasons why I wanted to do this today

is there’s so many people
getting into the hobby

because of me and because of
many other people besides me

and what I’ve noticed from a
small group of my followers

is some of them are just jumping in

without doing any education,
without any knowledge.

They’re like, Gary V, look what I bought!

I’m like they’re buying

like a seventh tier
grading company’s card.

I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no!

So this has been a good, this
is an exciting couple of hours

for me to like really help
keep the conversation going

and I encourage a lot of
the people that follow me

to go on Twitter.

There’s so many people

that have been in the game longer than me.

Like they’re gonna have
their points of view

but they have tons of historic
context and I’m excited

about where the hobby can go.

What can I answer for you?

[Alex] I’m excited as well.

One thing I was curious about

was I saw all these Luka base
cards just like skyrocket

in value, like double, triple.

Like a base card will be
worth like six, $700 now.

Meanwhile, like you can
get a Redfin blue or green

or other parallel for almost
the same price for less even.

So I was wondering if you think
that some of those parallels

are rarer versions,

are gonna see the same
proportionate increase in value

as the bases will just take longer

or will bases

I don’t, I don’t think so.

When you look at other industries,

when a mass injunction of people comes in,

their financial status doesn’t allow them

to buy the super premium
as much of the entry

so I think base will
outpace the super premium

’cause it’s awfully hard
to buy an $8,000 Luka.

I would argue, the reason I’m
starting to buy Topps regular

and Hoops is that it even
has to go lower than Prizm

’cause guess what?

A $700 single card of Luka Doncic Prizm

is not what the average
human being is gonna

be jumping into.

[Alex] Right but do you think
there will be a percentage

of the new masses that come
in will get more educated

on the


[Alex] On the various products?

Yes, yes, but I do not
believe over the long term

with a heavy influx of
demand that you’ll ever get

the super premium to grow as much

because of the affordability
and the risk factor.

[Alex] So it, the super
premium may grow on like

a normal trendline that it has been?

I think more than a normal trendline

’cause just the mass of
influx but to your point

of where you’re going,

not potentially as great
as some of the base.

[Alex] Got it.

So it will not be
proportionate, that makes sense.

No, but brother,

what we’ve been talking
about today is like,

what if Optic becomes it not Prizm?

What if SGC becomes the play, not PSA?

What if, like there’s a
lot of fucking variables

that we’re not, bro,

I’m like so scared that I’m
right about the stickers,

like I’m looking at the
Panini sticker Zions

more than the base Prizms.

I haven’t bought any, for disclosure,

but I’ve been like, literally
the last two nights,

almost pulling the trigger of wrapping up

all the Prizm PSA 10 stickers for Zion,

on Panini stickers that as you know,

nobody in the hobby
gives a fuck about yet.

[Alex] Right.

I mean, I haven’t gotten into it at all

because I’ve just been thinking
it’s just all about Prizm

and Prizm only.

Yeah, listen, me too for the most part!

I’ve only gotten hot on Topps regular and,

’cause before it was Topps
Chrome during that era and Optic,

really in the last month
because I’m like, oh fuck,

Luka’s were 35 to $70.

Now they’re 600,

like the normal person that
wants to get in for 1,000 bucks,

it was one thing to buy 30 Lukas.

I mean if you spend $1,000
when I was yelling about Luka

at 35 bucks and bought 30
of them, you have $18,000.

[Alex] Yeah.

That’s fucking nuts!

[Alex] I got introduced
to it over the end of summer

with like $80 in,

like I just can’t believe
it quintupled, more.

What I’m worried about is
that we all kind of common sense

are like, oh shit, is this gonna go down?

And again, don’t let Luka
drop 52 in game seven

on prime time.

You know where it’s going.

You see where the hobby’s at.

Like this summer, I mean, again, corona,

there’s a million things
that can happen in life.

Every, anything can happen.

By the way, back to what
I was answering Dustin,

tomorrow the FBI might come out and say,

35% of PSA cards are fake.

Guess what?

That’s gonna collapse the market.

I don’t know!

I’m not Nostradamus
but here’s what I know,

most things aren’t crazy.

Most things follow a certain
path and this summer,

cards are gonna be white
hot and the NBA finals

are gonna be like a day trading magnet,

like Luka drops 18 in the
first quarter and I’m worried

about what happens on eBay

’cause everyone’s just fucking on tilt.

[Alex] Right, I see a lot of people

spend a disproportionate
amount of their time

worrying about like the microtrend

instead of kind of looking

at the big picture like over time, like

Oh, by the way?

Oh, by the way, yeah, go ahead.

[Alex] Like the stock
market, they know the long run,

like the stock market’s
always gonna go up and like

Why do you, why, why

[Alex] But over the long run,

they’ll probably still going up.

Brother, they’re not
more volatile if you look

at the last 90 years.

This is why I’m holding
in my hand right now Kobe

and fucking Gretzky and Hulk
Hogan and Magic and Bird.

Over the next 30 years,
I feel great about that.

I’m not nervous about whether Juan,

I’ve got 20% of my energy
worried about Juan Soto,

Pete Alonso and Acuna to make baseball

more interesting to me,
to flip at the National.

That’s 20%.

I’m worried that that’s
everybody else’s 100%

and that’s how they’re gonna get burned.

[Alex] Yeah.

At the same token, I
think Giannis and Luka,

me, my opinion, potentially
are top 25 players of all time.

[Alex] I hope so.

I think Kevin Durant
comes back next year

and goes ballistic in the New York market

or he could get hurt again and be out,

and then it completely collapses.

[Alex] Yeah.

Listen, I wish I grew up with Pokemon.

If I was giving everybody advice,

if you fucking love
Pokemon, lock, go there,

because you have no risk
of Pikachu getting hurt.

(group laughs)

[Alex] I know, I kinda use
like my old Pokemon cards,

I’ve graded some of them and then those,

I’ve considered those more
of like my bond investment,

kind of the more safer, long term

And, to me, because I
don’t like Pokemon that way,

to me that’s LeBron.

[Alex] Right.

Like I would be dumbfounded

if LeBron’s not $20,000 in 20 years.

I’d be shocked.

I’m just, you know, by the
way, if LeBron wins a title,

I’m scared shit, bro,

if fucking Bron Bron wins a
title this year, it’s gonna get,

I don’t, I mean,

people are gonna cry if they had the means

that they didn’t buy it at 7500

and the reason they didn’t buy it was

’cause it was 1050 in April.

[Alex] So I got new LeBron right,

it was right around
mid February and I’ve been,

I’ve just been astounded at
how it’s gone from like 1,000,

2,000 to 76 and I’m
wondering, if that like,

where it’s gonna be at for several years

or I should hold that
for like a decade longer?

Brother, I’m telling you right now,

I would hold LeBron in perpetuity.

Basketballs go, before,
you and I will die before

basketball’s not a popular
sport during our lifetime.

[Alex] Yeah.

I think LeBron might end up

being the President of
the United States one day.

Like LeBron is showing
post basketball energy

that I don’t know where LeBron ends up.

That’d be some shit if
LeBron becomes president.

We clip this on whatever
to the fucking Instagram

of 21 years from now is, I’ll
be like I fucking told you.

(group laughs)

[Alex] He’s got the new Space Jam,

he’s just larger than life.

He’s larger than basketball for sure.

Bro, if he wins this
title, he’s gonna push over.

Bro, if he wins this
title, it’s gonna matter.

[Alex] Yeah.

So, cool man, thank you.

[Alex] All right, thanks.

[Male] What are some of
the really high end cards

that you’re investing
in that could be even

Jackie Robinson rookies, Jordan,

I think Jordan rookie is a $100,000 card

in the white heat moment.

It’s at 50 now.

I’m less into the one
of ones auto stuff like,

I’m not educated enough in
some of this stuff that like,

my friend like Adam Roe,
like is really focused on,

like those LeBron, Jordan,

like I’m just not educated enough yet

in the 90’s basketball like
rare shit that’s going crazy.

I like old as fuck shit,
you know, Kareem rookies,

Wilt Chamber, ’61 Fleer
basketball, I’m obsessed with.

(phone rings)

Oscar rookies, Jerry West
rookies, Wilt Chamberlain rookies.

(phone rings)

I haven’t started studying
but I’m like a little

[Male] Hello?

Hey, it’s Gary, what’s
your name, Kee vah?

[Male] Oh hey, Gary!

Kee vah?

[Male] Yes.

How are you?

[Kee Vah] Good, how are you?

I’m well.

What can I answer for you?

[Kee Vah] So I had a question.

So I’m a reseller, I
like Supreme, you know,

like sneakers and all that.

I understand, Kee vah.

[Kee Vah] And I was like
looking into kind of getting

into sports cards so


[Kee Vah] So what
would you like recommend?


[Kee Vah] Well, obviously
I saw like with you,

you said that the Honest
rookie would go up like 2,000

in like three years

but it went up 2,000 in like three months.

I know (laughs).

[Kee Vah] So (chuckles),

so me being kind of like
wanting to do this

Are you able?

So with Supreme and sneakers,

when did you first get into it?

[Kee vah] Like beginning
of last year, maybe?

And have you been able
to get yourself educated

and now like the dumb
shit you made mistakes on

when you first got into Supreme,
fakes, or the wrong stuff,

do you feel like you’re a lot,

do you feel like you’re
a lot smarter at it?

[Kee Vah] Oh yeah, of course.


Next, do you like sports?

[Kee Vah] Yeah, I do.

I like, I love basketball.

Well then you’re in good shape, brother.

Take the next 50 hours of
reading blow outs, forums,

Twitter, bunch of Instagram accounts.

Obviously I’m putting out content.

Like get really fucking educated,
completed items on eBay,

Stock X, buy and sell
prices, go 50 hours deep.

Go to a card, local card show.

Find three to 10 rabbis,

aka mentors that you just find

on Twitter through conversations.

Get real, real, real educated

and then start buying it because
I’m telling you right now,

basketball, couple things,
you heard what I said,

I’m buying 80% of my stuff
long term, 20% gambling.

How do I think about that?

LeBron, long term, De’Aaron Fox, gambling.

[Kee Vah] Okay.

Giannis, I think, he
needs a title to get crazy

but he’s so goddamn good
and so young (laughs).

Like so that, I would call
that an 80% locked in,

20% gamble ’cause he does
need a title but like,

Curry is kind of locked in.

Everyone’s forgotten
about him a little bit

’cause he’s hurt.

I like that with gambling but like if you,

what’s your favorite basketball team?

[Kee Vah] Right now,
probably Lakers or Pelicans.

Right now on some bandwagon shit?

[Kee Vah] (laughs) Maybe.

Where do you live?

[Kee Vah] Texas, El Paso.

Bro, you need to be a fucking Spurs fan

or a Rockets fan or a fucking Dallas fan.

Were you a Spurs fan when
it was fucking going good?

[Kee Vah] No.


[Kee Vah] I was like,

I was always with LeBron like all the way.

I respect that.

So where the fuck did
the Pelicans come from?

LeBron’s not on the Pelicans.

[Kee Vah] So

You decided to pick Zion for next?

[Kee Vah] Yeah, yeah, I thought Zion.

I used to watch Duke and
all that and I just

I respect that.

So listen, brother, what you
need to do is get really,

so I had somebody hit me
up that is a music manager

and told me he bought 50 Kuzma rookies.

I didn’t even know he was into it.

He manages one of the hip hop artists.

It was like a cold text the other night.

I got super pumped

’cause that’s like an
interesting take, right?

If they’re gonna make a run,

there’s gonna be all eyes on that team.

Obviously, LeBron and
Anthony Davis are obvious

but what if Kuz goes crazy?

I love that kind of shit.

That might be fun for you
’cause you’re a Lakers fan.

What I promise you cards do,

like I’ve watched more
fucking Atlanta highlights

and like box scores.

I care about, I literally,

every night ’cause I think Devonte Graham

has upside long term.

Look at the Charlotte box
score every night to see

what Graham’s doing.

If you love basketball,
I think basketball cards,

both modern for all the youngsters,
do you like Cam Reddish,

do you not?

But if you really wanna be safe,

if you’re just a flipper,

you’re gonna have to add some patience

because I’d like you, over time,

to get into some of the
classic shit, ’86, ’87 Fleer,

build up some of the old basketball stuff.

’72 Topps Dr. J I think it
unbelievably underpriced.

It’s the fucking doctor, you know like,

so you know, get educated.

50 hours and then put your toe in.

I do think you would make more
money in the next four years

on sports cards than you
would on sneakers and Supreme.

I believe that trend is about to happen,

that I do believe.

[Kee Vah] Alright.

All right, brother.

Talk to you.

[Kee Vah] Thank you.

[Male] Does the team
that a player plays on

effect the way that

Yes, of course.

Ariondo and Story are
top 25 baseball players

but the Colorado effect hurts their market

because people think their
stats are inflated in Colorado.

If Ja Morant was a Knick, his
prices would be up even more

’cause New York’s bigger market.

One of the reasons I
like Bellinger so much

is because with the
addition of Mookie Betts

and I think Gavin Lux is a real player.

I agree with Lou that
the pitching might be

a little bit suspect this year.

Though Walker Buehler’s a beast

and like it’ll be
interesting to see what else,

you know, if they pop
in LA, it’s fucking LA.

That does matter.

Now with basketball, we’ve
seen the real hot players,

if they’re really great,

they usually go to a big market team.

So if I’m thinking about Zion
now but I’m thinking about

him in five years and he
comes to New York, LA,

these kind of things, the
market effects things.

Not to mention little things,

like I think Anthony Rendon’s

about to have a big year ’cause with Trout

and some of the other beasts,

he’s surrounded in that line up.

Like I think he might
have a really big year

and I think he’s a top player
that people don’t think about

and he won a championship last year.

How does that, you know,

like you’re, yes, the
fucking team matters a lot.

[Lou] I have questions.

You have questions, go ahead.

[Lous] E sports?

E sports, you know I’d love to see,

I’m an owner of the
Minnesota Call of Duty team,

a minority owner with the Wilfs,

the people that own the Vikings.

I’m not, I have no information,
zero, towards whether COD

or any other league, there
are Fortnite cards out.

It seemed like they were
pretty mass produced.

There’s a lot of them but
then also if demand goes up

and Fortnite’s a 50 year title,
maybe they’re underpriced.

There was a lot of wrestling
cards made too but the demand,

like so I don’t know yet
but I am excited long term

about E sports.

I do believe, eventually,

there’ll be one that
really locks in, a league,

that will go with a big time producer,

whether that’s Leaf who does
some really interesting stuff,

whether that’s Topps,
whether that’s Upper Deck,

whether that’s, you know,

Panini that will then
become the meaningful card

and then that’ll be fun

and then you’ll make
bets on whether you think

it’s Booga or Ninja or Skill
or you know what I mean?

What else?

[Lou] What to do about markets that,

countries that don’t really
have markets for cards yet,

like it you go to like

You just have to overpay
with eBay shipping costs.

Like if you live in Sweden
and you’re watching right now,

like buy it and pay extra vig,

like you have no other options,

like what are you gonna do?

Just how can you get them?

As you know, we buy a
lot of stuff in Canada,

comes down here.

I bought stuff in Europe.

[Lou] $40 shipping (muffled)

I mean, but $40
shipping doesn’t bother me

if I think something’s
going through the roof

and I’m getting it at the right price.

It’s just business.

I’m unemotional if I’m
paying it in the shipping

or if I’m paying in the, again,

using, I mean when I made the
content about buying Giannis

at a buck 80, a buck 20, and
people are like, oh, it’s,

when it got to 300, people
are like, the Gary V Effect,

blah blah blah, I’m like, well, all right.

It’s at 2600 now.

I’m sure everybody who
didn’t buy it at 600

when they thought it
was so overflated by me

or something else, I’m
sure they’re fucking sad.

I’m not fucking making
him dominate on the court.

He’s completely unblockable!

He’s an awesome human being.

He’s charismatic as fuck.

He’s also like fucking
still young as shit!

He scares the shit out of me.

If you told me he wins five
in a row, I’m like okay.

[Lou] Remember what
happened when like taxes

started going on eBay and
you were like freaking out

I got so pissed?

Then it becomes normal, right?

Like I wasn’t pumped to
pay the taxes but like,

I love paying my taxes.

As long as everybody
else is paying the same,

I don’t give a fuck.

[Male] Are you buying anything raw?

I’m buying a couple things raw.

I bought a bunch of Gavin Lux Topps raw.

Somebody gave me a good
tip, it was like, hey,

look at the way somebody sells raw.

If they sell a bunch of
graded and a bunch of raw,

they probably looked at it

and they know that they’re not 10s.

If somebody’s just,

loves to open packs and sells raw all day,

you might have a higher chance
of them being 10s in there.

That’s the game I’m about to learn.

I’m, listen, I’m no expert,

I’m going through the
trials and tribulations too.

I’m buying raw when I think somebody,

like I think Gavin,
listen, I love Gavin Lux,

I think he’s gonna be a real player.

So I can’t buy, I don’t
wanna buy the Bowmans,

I wanna buy the Topps

’cause I think there’s a
moment happening with Topps,

closing the gap on the Bowman prices.

So the new Topps comes out,

the only thing I can buy is raw right now.

So that’s why I’m buying raw.

There’s a, I bought a bunch
of Jaren Jacksons last night

or the night before so I’m
buying some of the young players

that I’m not just sure just yet.

They’re at like the 75%

of like a little small
little hedge, right?

I bought a ton of Knox
last year ’cause I thought

we’re getting Durant and Kyrie
and it was gonna be awesome.

That has not worked out.

Bought those raw, but I’m
glad I bought those raw

’cause that was a way for me
to hedge and not get destroyed.

So a little bit and I think over time,

I say sustained in this.

If I keep tripling down on
this, I might get into the,

I might get educated by
accident on raw a little bit

and might find myself but
I’m still not good enough

at knowing what a centered raw 10 is.

[Male] This guy’s
finding incredible value

in graded nines right now.

Any thoughts on that?

I haven’t done personal
homework on nines yet.

We had a great discussion earlier.

Is it gonna be second tier companies,

like the lower cost product
or is it gonna be nines?

But I will say this,

everything’s gonna go up

with the amount of demand that’s coming.

It’s very hard to lose
right now unless of injury.

The way to lose right now buying cards,

actual cards, is picking the wrong guy,

a Baker Mayfield.

That did not work out.

Going into last year, Baker
was exciting and like,

he did not have the season
he wanted so you lost money

but for the most part it’s like,

like there’s just so much
more demand and, again,

to remind everybody like
me putting out a tweet

or a blog post or a podcast or this,

it was the breakers on YouTube,

it was fathers getting back into it,

it was some of the sneaker,

I got back into it ’cause kids
and sneaker heads got into it

and I saw a lot of YouTube videos

that were getting real views.

I’ve loved cards since I was a kid.

I never wanted, like I never
talked about it heavy before,

for the last 20 years.

I got back in ’cause it’s obvious to me

and I like making good decisions
with my time and finances

and I like telling other
people about things to debate

but I want them to be
educated and not stupid.

Give me one more while he dials.

I need tough questions.

I mean, there’s so many people,

there’s like hundreds
of people that hate me

in the sports card world

and I wanna get a tough question in.

[Lou] I’ve gotten several
questions about SGC tonight.

Of like why do I like it?

[Lou] Are you getting paid by SGC?

I’m getting zero dollars
and zero cents from SGC.

I like black cases.

(laughs) It’s not super comp,
you know when SGC did the 88,

like it’s not super, I could give a fuck,

on the record

[Male] Hello?

I don’t give a fuck about
Topps, Panini, SGC, PSA,

and Beckett combined.

If they all die tomorrow, I’m pumped.


(group laughs)

It’s Gary.

[Male] Holy shit, Gary!

What’s good, bro?

[Male] Dude, I’ve been
trying to get on with you

for like over a year, I’ve
been trying to talk to you.

My son turned me onto you and he’s 20

and we’ve got a couple businesses together

that we just started
out after a falling out

with another family
business and we’re doing

a lot of sports cards stuff.

You turned me onto that.

We’ve been doing pretty
decent with it and my,

holy shit, I can’t believe
I’m talking to you.

My biggest question is, Panini Instant,

what’s your take on Panini Instant?

Great question.

What’s your name?

[Male] Shiloh, Shiloh Gibbs.

Shiloh, real pleasure.

So the Topps Now and Panini Instant stuff,

I’ve not looked at at all.

I’ve just spent zero minutes
and zero seconds on it.

I’ve no knowledge on the
secondary market values.

I like the thesis.

I’ve also spent no time on
the Topps Blockchain product.

I just haven’t figured out my thoughts yet

’cause I can’t get to everything
’cause I run a thousand

person company and I have a family

and I have a million things going on.

Obviously this industry and this genre

has got my attention a lot
over the last two years

and especially over the last hundred days

but I don’t have a great answer, Shiloh.

I apologize.

It doesn’t feel like it’s super hot.

It doesn’t feel like people
are gravi tasing towards it.

On the flip side, much just
like stickers or SGC or Optic,

what don’t we see?

Maybe there’s something there
’cause the inventory levels

are very low and one could argue long term

from supply and demand
but you need demand,

but you need demand.

[Male] Lil Yachty says what’s up.

What’s that?

[Male] Lil Yachty says

Yachty, what’s good, bro?

Have you started getting into the cards?

I need to talk to you.

I’m gonna call you on the way home.

So, Shiloh, I think that,

I think that I don’t
know is the real answer

but I will say that
anything that has low supply

is always in play to
pop but it needs demand.

[Shiloh] Right, yeah, and
that’s why I was curious

your thoughts because, you know,

we’ve been buying, you know,
we’ve been buying quite a bit.

We actually started about a year ago

and I actually got on a Panini, Prizm,

we pulled a Luka’s autograph
and ended up selling that for,

we were buying so many
cards that we ended up,

I got scared and we ended up
selling it for like 400 bucks.

How much is it now?

[Shiloh] Oh shit, like two grand.


[Shiloh] Yeah, feel like an idiot.

We still have some

Well but, by the way,
brother, brother, brother,

turning cards into money
is never a horrible thing.

You just, look,

a lot of my friends sold
their Facebook stock at $48.

Then it got up to 220, they’re sad.

Like some people bought
it for 220 the other day

and now it’s down ’cause of Corona.

Like I didn’t look today but like,

I’m sure it’s walloped
like everything else.

So it’s very hard to capture
the market at the right time.

What I keep trying to tell
everybody is the macromarket

is about to,

(loud thud)

is about to explode.

I think that we’re looking at 1/10,

1/100 of the demand that we have right now

in the next 24 months as news
programs start to cover this,

as people like Yacht, Lil Yachty,

and like way cooler fucker,

more important cultural people than me

get into this when some
massive sneaker head

makes a blog post that
they sold all $1 million

of their sneakers and now have bought

all sports cards and complex covers.

That like, like One37pm, a
media company I hire, I own,

is about to write about
sports cards everyday.

Like I just think there’s
a lot more coming.

[Shiloh] Yeah, see,

we’ve been bugging the shit
out of the Panini Instants too

just, well, we’re big Chiefs fans.

We live in Kansas and
we’ve been Chiefs fans

since I was a kid and

Did you buy, like if you
bought Mahomes heavy a year ago,

you crushed.

[Shiloh] Yeah, yeah, I’ve
got some Mahomes stuff.

Then I bought a bunch of, you know,

I buy a lot of the Panini
one out of 10s sets

and everything else just
because I know, you know,

obviously limited is the better way to go.

I can’t afford to do the blacks

The problem is there was
limited things when I was,

like O Pee Chee Baseball

was the hottest fucking thing in 1992.

It was quote unquote limited.

It’s worthless today.

The thing that I keep telling everybody

is buy the most iconic 100
players across all the sports

and then,

and then be very thoughtful

if you think limited is
enough because, again,

if people don’t care about
Panini in 10 years or 20 years,

we’re all gonna get caught.

So have a smart strategy
which is why I want people

to bet on players that
are fool proof as 80%

of their investment,

Mike Trout, Brady, you know,
like these things really,

and basketball ’cause I think
it’s the macro and soccer,

Messi, Ronaldo, with a hedge
on the up and coming stars

like Felix and Mbappe.

So I think there’s a lot
of cool stuff to bet on.

[Shiloh] Hey, will you do me,

will you do me one quick favor?

Yes, sir.

[Shiloh] My son’s 20 years old.

He’s got a great head on him.

He’s an entrepreneur.

I mean, he gives it all,
we work seven days a week,

10 to 18 hours a day getting
our new businesses going

and he’s such a fucking workhorse,


[Shiloh] And he’s such
a huge fan of yours.

Would you do me a favor?

Would you give him a shout out?

His name’s Damon Good.

Damon Good, what’s up, it’s Gary Vee.

Keep going, brother.

You’re literally,
literally got 80 more years

of aiming for happiness and hustle.

So congratulations, I can’t
wait to meet you in real life.

I just had a great chat with your dad

and I can’t wait to meet one day.

Come to the National in Atlantic City.

I’m gonna be there the entire week.

Shiloh, I need you to go to the National.

Will you go, will you go in late July,

early August to the
National, Atlantic City?

Like will you make those plans?

[Shiloh] Fuck yeah, I’ll do that.

End of July, that’s my birthday, man.


Oh and by the way, I’ve
seen this on Twitter too,

the National is not paying me.

Give a fuck about the National.

National goes out of business,

BGS, SGC, PSA, Topps,
Panini, Leaf, give a fuck.

[Lou] Paid for two tables.

Paid for two tables.

Yeah, I’m really getting paid.

[Shiloh] Hell yeah,
we’re gonna be there.

We’re gonna be there.

Good, I’ll see you there.

[Shiloh] We’ll track you down.

Thank you, sir.

You got it, brother.

It’s so fascinating to
people that they would think,

if they knew anything about
my life and know everything

I’ve got going on,

the thought of like running
a pump and dump arbitrage

for $100,000 in sports.

(group laughs)

Yeah, that’s why you guys are laughing

’cause you know my actual
life and people are just

so siloed in like being the
gatekeepers of their thing

as if you get to decide if people,

somebody DM’d me and they’re like,

“You have to collect to
be in this,” and I’m like,

what are you talking about?

Why do I have to collect?

That’s like saying you
have to wear sneakers

or you have to like
look at the art everyday

or you have to like eat sushi
everyday to be a fan of su ,

like what are you talking about?

Who the fuck made you God?

There’s people that can flip,

there’s people that can collect.

There’s a million things you can do.

The hypocrisy, people, watching people,

somebody’s like, “You’re pumping,”

and I go look at their least
tweet and they’re like,

“Bo ba shat”, buy it now.

Like, I’m like, what are
we talking about here?

(group laughs)

The hypocrisy is fucking unbelievable.

I’ll see you all in 20 fucking years.

For 98% of the people
that are ‘rassing me,

I was into sports cards

before they were fucking
popping out of their mommy.

So I don’t need your fucking shit.

Let’s keep it going.

What do you got?

[Male] As the stock market goes down,

do you think that’s gonna
affect sports cards.

That’s been really
interesting ’cause the market’s

getting annihilated and
cards are going, (chuckles)

like I’m like, oh shit,
like, I’m in a weird spot.

I’m like fuck, should
I sell some of my cards

to buy Facebook and Netflix right now

’cause they’re wildly underpriced.

I’m like is that a better, but I’m like,

I literally had this talk
with myself over the week

and I’m like, no, I actually think LeBrons

are gonna go up more than
whenever I hit the bottom

of fucking Facebook and go,
like I just don’t think people

see it the way I see it.

I really think that every
high net worth individual

at 60 years old, that today is 28 to 40,

is gonna have a LeBron
rookie in their home

and I think that’s gonna get expensive.

Andy Warhol went up.

(phone rings)

This is art for our culture.

I know it.

That’s why I like oversized cards, right?

[Male] Hello?

Think about this hanging in
somebody’s, what’s good, bro?

[Male] Hey, Gary!

What’s your name?

[Male] It’s Adam.

Adam, what’s good?

[Adam] So I had DM’d
Lou a question actually

about the ’90’s era like Shaq cards?

So basically like, with that
era like there’s so many,

so many different cards

And so much, and so much
supply of those cards, right?

[Adam] Right, exactly.

Like my theory, my theory
about those cards in general

is that like I think the brand like Topps

are going to be good in the long term

’cause what ends up is
gonna happen is that like

new collectors are gonna come
in and they’re gonna see cost

and they’re gonna say, oh well,

“Topps must be the brand
that I need to get.”

Right, is that something,
what do you think about that?

I don’t know if that’s true.

I think Topps is an iconic
brand and I think long term,

I grew up during the era
where Donruss was more popular

than Topps and then Upper Deck and Leaf

were more popular than
Topps and here we are,

and Topps is here.

So I think in baseball, there’s
a lot of historic value.

You know, I don’t know.

I mean, look, I think beam
team Shaqs are probably,

Stadium Club beam team Shaqs
are probably gonna end up

being very underpriced ’cause of the,

I think you have to put, deploy
real economics against this,

real tried and true global economics

meaning supply and demand matters.

There is a lot more tops regular Shaqs

than there are beam team Shaqs

plus the hobby has
decided the beam team Shaq

is the rookie.

On the flip side, to your
point and I made it earlier,

I do think as the hobby
gets 10x more popular,

the lower end has got a
chance to go up even more

than the high end and so, you know,

does a beam team thing
go from 1,500 to 3,000

while the regular Topps,

I don’t know what the regular
Topps Shaq goes for right now

but does that go from 30 to 300,

10x versus two x or three x,

that’s gonna be a very interesting debate.

I think what I like about
the lower end going up

faster than the higher end
is the majority of people

who are watching right now,

if they wanna make a bet are
in a better likely chance

to buy 10 Topps PSA 10 Shaq rookies

or I like the Fleer a lot

’cause the color scheme makes it hard

for that to be a 10 grade

but that’s not here, not there.

I bought 10 Fleer at that point, right?



[Lou] 10 ish?

13 maybe?

[Lou] Yeah.

I remember I bought it
once, I was all excited,

’cause it’s like gold trim,
like it was kind of like,

these are, like the white
stuff doesn’t bang up

as easy on the, nonetheless,

I’m getting a little nerdy here,

but yeah I like that you can buy 10 Shaqs

and they 10x instead of
you can’t afford 10 beams

and the beams only three x,

similar to the Prizm high end

that we talked about earlier, make sense?

[Adam] Yeah, the Shaq actually, I think,

so ’90 in bball cards on
Instagram has given me

the tip about that and
I actually had DM’d you

about that one, the one with
the black jersey, right?

That’s why you bought ’em.


Yes, I

[Adam] Yeah, so I
bought a couple of those

over the summer for 30,

And now?

[Adam] And I just recently
told two of ’em for,

two total for $170.

So the Shaq cards,

even the regular Topps
I bought for like 20.

If Shaq was during the
pre era of the junk wax era

or the post era, he’d be some
of the most expensive cards

’cause he’s a cultural phenomenon.

[Adam] Right, for sure.

I mean that’s why I looked at.

I looked at those cards and I said

And to your point, if
basketball becomes, listen,

Shaq, earlier the junk wax
era, is it underpriced?

I would argue Shaq is a
running take as one of the best

junk wax era cards to
buy ’cause the demand

may even outpace that
enormous amount of supply.

[Adam] Yeah, I agree.

So I do have one other
question about baseball?

Please, yeah, please.

[Adam] So something that I noticed

was that the Bowman Chrome,

first Bowman rookies
are starting to either

be less than the regular Topps rookies,

like in Mookie Betts’ case,

Me too.

[Adam] Like Mookie Betts’ Topps,

is more expensive than the
Mookie Betts Bowman Chrome card.

I’m seeing it too.

[Adam] But for so long,
it has been the opposite.

I’m not sure

By the way, bro,

I have and don’t forget I’ve
been watching for two years

and I only thought Bowman, Bowman, Bowman.

Bro, this is what I’m telling you,

when a lot more people get involved,

the hobby and the way they
decided things is gonna change.

It’s very simple.

If there’s 30,000 people into something

and they’re collective
energy decides something,

’cause that’s what a
hobby is and a market is,

and now there’s 400,000 people in it,

there’s a chance that things will shift.

I’ve been blown away by that dynamic.

Even when I was a kid,
Mariano Rivera ’92’s,

like Bowman was more
powerful than Topps, right?

Now, all of a sudden, to your point,

I’m seeing more of a push towards

the Topps considered rookie,

whether that’s an update,
a series two, a series one.

That’s why I bought a
bunch of Gavin Lux raw.

Like I don’t know what else to tell you.

Like, yes, I see that happening too.

Is that a micro five second trend

or does that become the trend?

Again, I don’t know.

I’m just trying to tell
the collective hobby,

be prepared for new things to happen

if hundreds of thousands
of people get involved.

[Adam] Yeah, totally agree and then,

so I have one other question.

Hopefully, this will be my last question,

so what do you think of
the inserts in Prizm?

So like specifically would be like Luka

so there’s like three name ones
but like the nine day stuff,

for the most part, like
the inserts are the,

are what’s most popular,
so like you think

But weren’t, but weren’t
those things numbered so low?

I’m undereducated on
90’s basketball inserts.

It’s one of the places I
want to get educated on.

I know Nat and others like
are really heavy on that.

That shit’s super hot.

It’s really expensive.

I’m very undereducated on it
but correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m asking you if you know.

Those things were like
numbered to 75 or 200,

like these Prizm numbers, I
think, are far greater, no?

[Adam] So, I don’t know the
numbering stuff, I don’t know.

I just know that like
from talking to people

who collect those types of cards like,

they’ve told me that the 90’s
insert was much more popular

than the regular rookie which like,

I’ve been looking into PSA
numbers for some of the inserts

and they’re like in the
200s but, obviously,

if they’re in the, if
they’re numbered to like 75

for the 90’s card, like that’s
obviously a different but,

or different but that’s kind of

what I was looking at recently at least.

It’s a really interesting
take, brother, and like,

honestly I’m excited
’cause you’re gonna make me

look at it right now, like, yeah.

I mean, I think it’s an
interesting conversation.

I just have no knowledge,

I have no knowledge of if
the Zion and Luka inserts

are a good way to look versus the base.

I just haven’t started the process

but hearing you articulate
it, I’m like, huh.

I promise you that I’ll be taking a flight

in a couple of months and
I’ll remember this call

and then I’ll spend four and a half hours

flying to, back from LA to New York,

literally just doing homework on that

and I think that’s an important
part that a lot of people

are missing right now that are jumping in,

I did hundreds of hours of homework,

going to shows, reading
forums, reading Twitter,

following Instagram accounts,

looking at completed eBay
and Stock X numbers ad nausea

before I even started coming
up with hypothesis or tweets.

[Adam] Yeah, I think,
I mean for me at least,

one thing that I think
he’d get a little nervous,

that gets me a little
nervous when people come in

and they’re just like,
“I have $600 to spend,”

or I have $500 to spend.

They’re just, they’re willing
to just spend it on anything

and I think that gets me
a little bit nervous but,

at the same time, like if
those people are spending,

like you’re saying, the 10 to
100 hours doing the research,

like I can give tons of
opportunity and I think that’s

maybe something that
other people in the hobby

don’t think that there is.

Like they think that there’s only one way

to make money or to collect

and I don’t think that’s the case.

I think that’s right
and I don’t think you, me,

or anybody else no matter
how long or how short

you’ve been collecting owns
the hobby or the flip market.

It’s audacious to think that.

[Adam] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And they’ll be, look
this happened to me,

I got into the fall, I was super hyped,

then I got into the fall
and I had to replace

my head of every
discipline at Vaynermedia,

I had a lot of things
going on in my life, busy,

the Jets season.

Like I’m always gonna be
less loud about the hobby

September to December ’cause I’m busy.

Like so it just goes into pockets too.

Like I’ll always not make as
much opportunity for myself

in basketball ’cause I’m
too busy September 1st on

and there’s a lot of fun action to be had

in September and October prior
to the basketball season.

I’ve just remissed to
know that to be true.

[Adam] Totally agree, yeah, I think,

I mean, I think you are, you’re
trying to articulate I think

the best that you can like
the stuff that you like

and I think it’s not a coincidence
that stuff that you like

just happens to be correct,

like just stuff that goes up in value.

I don’t think it’s, I don’t
think the two are related,

but I think that like when you are saying

that you like this card
it’s already on it’s way up.

Is that kind of, what
do you think about that?

I think it’s so damn obvious.

Like people are making fun of me

at both sides of their
mouth that are mad at me.

They’re like, this fucking
guy’s manipulating the market

and then three tweets later they’re like,

dude, he’s not a fucking genius,

he’s just talking about the cards

that we’re all talking about.

I’m like, so which one is it, dick?

[Adam] Yeah, exactly.

It’s like, your philosophy
is like buy Mookie cards.

Wow, what a shocker.


And I’m also say ad nausea,

if Luka becomes Paul George injury,

you’re gonna lose a fuck load of money.

If Luka becomes Derrick Rose,

you’re gonna lose a fuck load of money.

[Adam] Yeah, like so obvious.

Like I’m sorry that I think
LeBron James was a good bet.

[Adam] I didn’t mean to rile
you up here, Gary. (chuckles)

No, no, it’s not a rile up.

You’re exciting me because I
appreciate you articulating it.

I read all these comments
and I have a lot of love

for these guys and dealers
and like a lot of people

are mean to me on Twitter
publicly but then DM me nicely

or I see them at shows and they’re nice

and I’m like, hey, I get it.

Like there’s an
establishment to everything.

When somebody’s been buying
up three properties in Dumbo

and a big real estate
person comes and buys more,

there’s some mad.

When you love the band
and then they get big

and everybody loves them, you get mad.

Like I understand the human dynamics,

it’s just that, don’t make up stuff.

Like people are making up stuff.

People are like this
guy’s pumping and dumping.

I haven’t sold shit.

[Adam] Right, I think that’s
another thing that maybe,

like have you articulated that at all,

like saying that you’re
just not selling anything?

Like maybe ’cause that could be

No, because, because, brother,

because, no, no, brother!

The answer is no but I’ll
answer any questions.

How many Zions do you have?


Like, here’s why.

If I don’t like the way
Cody Bellinger is playing,

I want to be able to sell it!

What am I gonna put myself in concrete

and say I’m never selling?

Like I don’t fucking know!

Like if tomorrow I’m like, in 1993,

I was at a fucking firehouse
in New Jersey doing a show

and decided because of
what I’m good at as a human

that the card market
was about to collapse,

sold my entire collection of four dealers

and put all that money
into comic books and toys.

I want to be able to do that!

In three and a half, I
say this all the time,

I like SnapChat when SnapChat’s good.

I like Tik Tok when Tik Tok’s good.

I like Facebook when Facebook’s good.

I like cards right now ’cause it’s good

and it’s gonna be good!

I’m also gonna sell them

if I don’t think it’s gonna be good.

I’ll publicly say it.

I’m not gonna quietly try to
sell off my thing and then,

like there’s no, bro, you know this,

there’s no hiding anyway.

Everyone’s like, oh,
you’re getting loud now.

No, I’m not.

I’m reacting to what’s happening.

Let me tell you what was happening.

I’ve been buying.

I’m buying but what
ended up happening was,

people figured out my account.

I’m not hiding, Edison Sports
Card, not so complicated.

[Adam] Yeah, I think
that’s the other thing,

it’s like it’s on public
record like all the

So, right, I’m just
buying and people are then

creating discord groups and
group chats and What’s App chats

and texts saying Gary’s buying
this and they’re buying it up

and then some people are like,
oh, you’re quietly buying

and then promoting.

I’m like, okay, I don’t want to do that

because that would suck, right?

Like when I said I think Pete
Alonso might be underpriced

if he hits a bunch of homers, I had 20?

Help me here, Lou.

[Lou] Yeah.


[Lou] 10.


Brother, brother, I get paid
$250,000 to give a speech.

I had 10,

[Adam] Exactly.

I had 10 Pete Alonso
cards at $30 a piece.

Like I’m not trying to pump
them to 70 and sell them

and make $400 and rule in my name.

[Adam] Yeah, how dare you do that, Gary.

That I’m a con artist.

What is the matter with people?

[Adam] Yeah, how dare you.

What is the fucking matter with people.

[Adam] Yeah, exactly.

I have a hot take.

Mark Mark McGwire and Barry
Bonds went up a fuck load.

Pete Alonso hit 53
homers as a New York Met

who’s a nice kid, who’s epic with fans.

I watched it, epic with
fans, he’s a nice kid,

he had 53 fucking homeruns.

Do you understand what
would happen if Pete Alonso

hit 60 homeruns this year
and the hobby is 10X hotter?

[Adam] It would double,
triple, who knows.

I mean it’s really like

Or, or it would Giannis and Luka, 10X,

if he had 60?

He had 53 last year!

Now, by the way, he’s a 250 hitter

and could be fucking Joey Gallo, I get it.

He could.

I’m buying baseball for one reason,

the National is my Disney
World trip for the week.

I want to set up, I want
to have stacks of cards,

and baseball’s gonna be on
everybody’s mind in the summer

and if Acuna is on his way to 50/50,

that card’s gonna be 500 at
the show and if he gets hurt,

it’s gonna go from 250,
300 down to a buck.

Like that’s cards!

That’s not Gary V tweeted.

I didn’t tweet shit about Zion.

It’s been out of control.

Not a tweet, not a single
purchase, I own zero.

[Adam] So with Zion specifically

By the way, I stopped talking
about Giannis at $400, $500.

It’s gone on its way to 2600.

[Adam] So I thought an
interesting comment on Instagram

about the next upcoming
releases for basketball,

like looking to like National
Treasures, impeccable,

immaculate, like do you
think that stuff will affect

the Zion prices or do
you think that that stuff

will just

First of all,

that shit is gonna be
for rich fucking people.

That’s gonna be on some 1% shit.

Like National Treasures
are expensive to me.

[Lou] We cut the boxes, remember?

Yeah, like that shit’s expensive, man!

Will it affect it?

No, because it’s gonna
be for the uber rich!

It’s gonna be for the 1%,

the fuck is $15,000 cases of cards?

Who the fuck is that for?

Bro, I’m going, bro, I’m going the other,

I’m going the other way!

I’m like buying Hoops Lukas.

[Adam] Hoops Lukas, yeah.

Those are, I mean, I think
finding the alternative

I started a text with, my next offer,

like what I did with Giannis on Instagram,

I don’t know if you were around for this,

when I bought like a hundred
of ’em but then I sold

like 10 of them on Instagram
because I wanted everybody,

those kids bought it from
me from $180 or $200.

They made a fortune.

My next offer, I’m giving it to you now.

Here’s transparency, my next
offer’s gonna be Luka Hoops.

I started a text thread that
has 10,000 people in it.

I’m gonna give advice there
and then I’m also gonna

offer cards once in awhile
that I think fit the Luka,

I want them to fit the Giannis model.

That’s what I’ve been
thinking a lot about.

If you were a kid, like
people were yelling at me

to selling Giannis in my Instagram at 180

’cause they were 120 a few weeks earlier.

Every kid that bought that
from me, 12, 14 months ago,

ripped me the fuck off!

It’s 2600 now.

[Lou] 60 Lukas for 60 bucks.

Right, I sold 60 Lukas at
the National for 60 bucks.

Those guys in Texas.

Big ups to you guys.

You ripped me the fuck off
just ’cause I wanted to,

I’m gonna get ripped off at
the National ’cause there,

I’m not smart.

There, I wanna be a
dealer like I was a kid.

[Lou] Full tilt.

Full tilt, you saw, I made,

remember that Ronaldo I got murdered on?

I lost, I’m my dumbest at the National.

I’m my dumbest at the National.

But like, I’m looking, I’m trying to buy,

like I wanna give advice,
I also like action.

I like action.

I like the idea of
buying Hoops Lukas for 90

and selling ’em for 120 or 60 and 80

and then selling ’em for 80.

That makes me excited or whatever the,

I don’t know what the
numbers are on that but like

what did I sell, what
did I buy the Lukas for?

Let’s go trans , what’d I
buy the Lukas for, roughly?

[Lou] Our average is like 50.

And what are they at right now?

[Lou] Now they’re like 600?

No, no, no, I’m sorry, not the Prizms.

I know we destroyed that.

Hoops, the 104 that I bought.

[Lou] Paid, I’ll look it up.

I bought like a hundred,

like I knew I was gonna
do this little thread

where I wanted to have action
’cause I love selling shit.

That’s why I love, by the
way, everybody watching,

if you buy wine, WineText.com,

the same reason I talk to
my dad’s business everyday

on WineText, I like
commerce, I like action,

but I wanna figure out,
if I’m gonna order,

if I’m gonna offer to my
fans, I wanna do shit like,

hey, I really believe
in this Hoops thesis.

Let me buy for 60, let me sell for 90.

That makes me happy but I also
think they’re gonna be 200

and so my fans are gonna be happy.

Otherwise, I get murdered on
the backend if they go down.

Does that make sense?

[Adam] Yeah, for sure.

Like, for example, Acuna,
Acuna, even though I’m in at,

yep, even though I’m in at
90 or 100 like, by the way,

everybody nailing me for
pronunciations that makes me laugh.

Go to the wine world for a decade

when I mispronounced every wine.

Everything I’m living right
now, Adam, in the sports world,

is everything that I
lived in the wine world.

I have strengths and weaknesses.

Pronunciation is a weakness, go ahead.

[Adam] On Tik Tok I post
videos are early Hwang

and every single time
I get a pronunciation

that I’m pronouncing his
name wrong so I changed it

and I changed it again
and then every single time

people are like, you’re
pronouncing it wrong.

Like, at this point, I don’t care.

I’m just gonna pronounce it
What’s that?

how I want to pronounce it
80 bucks

and how much are Hoops, Luka’s right now?

[Adam] so like you know
what I’m talking about so

That’s it, so anyway, like listen,

I’m trying to live my life.

I’m trying to leave a legacy.

I know I’m right about sports
cards and just like everything

that ever happened to me
in wine and social media,

history will be my biggest advocate.

I can deal with the hate.

I can deal the pushback.

I know that people are spreading
fake rumors left and right.

I tried to go silent and just
buy and not bother anybody,

that didn’t work.

Then I started being a little more public

about things that I wanted,

that didn’t work.

Then, last night, I put out
my buying price on Luka,

that seemingly didn’t work.

Lou yelled at me this morning.

He’s like, you know like, you
know like, I can’t help it.

I don’t know what to do.

What am I supposed to
live in a fucking bubble,

and by the way,

I’m gonna be the 80th
most influential person

in this game in 24 months.

[Adam] I, yeah, like
I think you were saying,

like if Diddy or like anybody
posts about it, like

It’s over.

[Adam] Even on the internet,

you are more famous than somebody
like Diddy maybe but like,

I’m not.

[Adam] But in the rest of the
world, like Diddy is like

Correct, and I’m not on the internet

and not off the internet and by the way,

wait to, it’s happening,

I’m getting athletes hitting
me up left and right,

left and right.

Wait ’til the athletes start buying them.

[Adam] Who do you think is
gonna be the first athlete

to invest in their own rookie card?

I don’t know but I’ve
told every Vaynersports kid

when they’ve signed with us to do it.

It’s the ultimate flex.

[Adam] It is an interesting move.

You believe in yourself?

I told Donovan Mitchell at
the NBA All Star weekend

’cause I love that kid to buy

as many of his own rookie cards

and then take a photo
with like 1,000 of ’em.

[Adam] Oh my God, that’d be hilarious.

I mean, that’s

Betting on yourself!

It’s just fun.

Anyway, thank you brother,
this was very good.

[Adam] Yep, thanks.

See ya.

Well, Lou, any other tough,

like I wanna get some
of the tough questions

if you got anything, you got anything?

[Male] How much have
you spent on cards so far

and what do you expect


I mean, look, I’m willing
to be transparent.

I don’t need to give
everybody every goddamn thing.

I’m not wanting to take
my pants off and be naked

but millions, why?

In the same reason I stopped investing

in startups for three years.

It’s because I believe.

Now, I’ve bought some really
old stuff, really expensive.

My volume of cards is not that high.

I’m not buying thousands of these low,

it’s been more because I’m
buying very high end stuff.

The class, I’m buying, I’m eating my own,

everything you’ll hear from
me forever is what I’m doing

and I’ll keep trying
different things like,

hey, here’s my buying price.

Hey, here’s who I think is
gonna be hot, buying silently,

I’m trying to figure it out.

I don’t know how to
navigate in this world.

[Lou] Someone just
asked me if you tell me

to go on my eBay account
and buy things for you?


Everything that I buy on eBay
is on Edison Sports Cards,

you can look it up.

[Lou] Edison Sports Card Company

Edison Sports Card Company,

like I’m, Lou, please
create some color here,

like you know me, like please help me.

Say something that makes sense.

I don’t fucking know.

20 years of knowing Gary,

two and a half years of buying cards,

started with Hakeem PSA 8s
that we were buying off center,

remember that?

(laughs) Yes, OCs.

I made all the mistakes.

Gotta get educated.

I thought I was educated,
I got more educated.

I helped you research
because you can’t do it all

and then I bought nothing
for the last two years

and four months and I
finally bought my first cards

three weeks ago.

Yeah, there’s a lot of
confusion and people are very,

[Male] Oh, those were for you?

Yeah, you did buy ’em for me, actually.

People are confused and think
that there’s things going on

that are not going on.

For example, there are just no Zions.

I can’t believe that’s a thing.

It’s crazy.

People think that you’re single handedly

manipulating the Zion market.

Don’t own a single Zion.

I don’t have a single tweet,
do I have a single purchase?

The only thing we
sold was Deshaun Watson.

You tweeted about it like

I fucked that up!

I was right about Deshaun,

I thought he was underrated
so I bought that lot

and I fucked it,

and they were Optic which I
think are underpriced now.


Bought ’em for 25 over 60.

Listen, I love sports card.

I’ve flipped my whole life.

I will continue to flip.

I will not not sell in perpetuity.

I will not sell LeBrons.

I will not sell Jordans.

I will not sell Ronaldo, like Magic,

I’m not selling any of
these Magic, Bird cards.

If you saw me at the National,

most of my case was not selling.

Giannis, that was right, not selling.

I bought Honest there
and everybody, like kids,

I was listening.

Kids would sell me Giannis
at and they were laughing,

they were like I bought it for 600,

they thought on I
manipulated it from 120, 600,

they’d walk over a little
bit, I have big time ears,

and they’re like, hey,

Gary’s such an idiot and they
were wrong just like the guy

that bought 60 Lukas from me for 60 bucks

at the end of the show
’cause I love selling.

I love selling.

I’m sorry that I’m an
entrepreneur, I apologize.

[Lou] We don’t (muffled)

Yeah, I get it, we were
pumped 30 to 60 but, meanwhile,

they’re 600 now, I
don’t know if you heard.

[Lou] No.

What else?

What else?

Tougher questions or feedback.

[Male] How do I make passive income?

No such thing as passive income.

I’m looking this shit up
every night for three hours.

This is not about

[Lou] Literally every night.

Every night, I’m spending
enormous amount of time

looking this shit up.

I’m doing homework,
I’m looking for angles,

things that people don’t
see and any time I’m looking

for things that people don’t see,

can SGC ’cause they got
cool black, I think this is,

I asked fucking like 100
people that were normal,

which one’s cooler to you?

This one.

So I’m like, hmm, I wonder
if that becomes a thing

when 400,000 people come in.

When people start
analyzing SGC versus PSA.

Everyone’s like, what’s
a Hardin grading company?

But also, it’s a small
company, like I said,

it could go out of business
but as soon as I’m looking

for new angles,

oh, your manipulating it.

Are they paying you?

Is the National paying you?

No, I fucking love baseball card shows.

I just want all of you to come.

I like hanging out.

It’s so fun.

You know, like I don’t get it.

Like, Old Lou,

like I was devastated
he couldn’t come, right?

I was crushed.

I called you like 10 times.

I’m like, he had a
business thing but like,

Atlantic City this year, whole week.

(phone rings)

Who’s this?

[Lou] Jason.

(phone rings)

[Male] How you doing?

Jason, it’s Gary Vee.

[Male] What’s up, Gary?

Life is good, bro.

How are you?

[Male] Good, how are you?

Good, man.

What’s your question?

[Jason] My question is,

so a lot of new people in the card market,

we did not go through like 2008.


[Jason] So what do you
think, if history repeats,

what do you think’s gonna
happen in the card market?

The same thing that happened
in 2008 and happened in 2001

and every other year I focused on,

the tippy top shit is gonna go
down 20 to 40, 20 to 30% max

and the players that
didn’t pan out the way

you thought they would are
gonna collapse like crazy

which is why 80% of my
money is going into forever

and 20% is gambling on Jo
Adell or De’Aaron Fox, got it?

Whereas what I’m worried
about is that everybody

puts their money even in great
prospects like Juan Soto,

he’s still a baby.

[Jason] Yep, so like,
new rookies like Zion

would be like gambling?

I think, I believe that Zion is still,

at this point, gambling.

What I’m sure people that sat
through LeBron will tell you

is if Zion becomes LeBron,

this is the cheapest he’ll ever be.

I think everyone’s on tilt
right now and I do think that,

in the off season, things could come down.

Even if Acuna went to 300, down to 250,

like you gotta kind of watch it.

I do, do I believe there’ll be pockets of,

if Zion becomes LeBron,
do I believe right now

that there will be still
a couple of pockets

where Zions will be less
than they are right now?

Yes, I do.

I think during the NBA off
season when everyone’s deciding

between Daniel Jones and
Darnold and Baker and,

do you triple down on Mahomes,
and where does Brady end up,

not the Patriots and what
does that mean and Stidham

and I think our attention
will go to the month before,

I mean so much of, everyone’s like, Gary,

baseball, Bellinger,

I’m like all the other baseball
players are going up too.

Why are you mad at me?

Like baseball goes up the month
before baseball comes out.

It’s, you know, Yelich is scourging,

I’m not talking, I haven’t
bought, I own zero Yeliches.

I’ve tweeted zero times about Yelich.

Like, and he is the best
player potentially in baseball.

I just, not excited about it.

I’ve decided not to be
excited about Yelich

for my own random purposes.

I’m hot on the Dodgers.

So Bellinger and Betts excite me

’cause I’m hot on the
Dodgers going really, really,

really crazy offense hot and it’s LA.

I like LA more than Milwaukee.


[Jason] All right.

I think the money and new, like LA has,

so anyway, nonetheless,
but yes I think people,

I believe not only will
there be an economic downturn

where things go down,

I think that there’s so
much heat coming that

the inevitable calm down,
no different than any trade,

guess what?

Far less eight to 11 year
old girls are making slime

today than they did 24 months ago, right?

Like every trend has cycles
but cards have been around

for a hundred years.

They’ve had multiple turns, long term,

it’s a really interesting
thing and if I’m right

that this is my generation’s
art and you’re in it

for the long haul and
80% of your shit is safe,

I think it’s about super safe,

then I would call it middle safe.

Luka and Giannis have showed us enough

that they may be middle
safe, Giannis more than Luka

but like I kind of just believe in Luka

and then there’s complete
fucking gambling.

In my world, that’s called Sam Darnold

and De’Aaron Fox and Juan Soto.

In other people’s world,
it’s Jaren Jackson,

or it just, Trae Young, I don’t
think is locked, you know?

Ja Morant, I think, is
a really good debate.

They’re very expensive.

He’s super dynamic but
like would I call him risk?

I would.

Not to mention some guys
don’t translate forever.

Vince Carter and Allen Iverson
cards are very inexpensive.

They did become iconic players.

They just didn’t grasp
the hobby’s interest.

Peyton Manning, some guys
just don’t take the heart

of the hobby, you know what I mean?

[Jason] Yep.

So I think a lot about Luka
and Giannis’ personalities

versus Kawhi.

Do you understand if
Kawhi was a different guy,

how expensive that card would be?

[Jason] I still think
they’re undervalued.

Because you’re looking at performance,

not collectability and popularity.

I listen to political experts
tell me shit all the time

and I keep reminding ’em

that the President of the United States

is a popularity contest.

[Jason] Yeah.(chuckles)

I have, Tim Duncan
cards should be 40X then,

if you believe Kawhis are underpriced.

[Jason] True, yeah.

I’m aware but some people are culture

and some people are not.

It’s why I’m buying Kaepernick cards,


[Jason] True, yep.

So thank you, brother.

[Jason] Yep, thank you so much, man.

You got it, bye.

[Male] Somebody who was next to us

when that 60 deal went
down talked to ’em after

and what his plan was was very strange,

if you wanna call this guy and
find out what that story was.

Okay, call him.

(group laughs)

(dial tone buzzing)

We’re not gonna get to our
grading strategy today?

[Lou] I think that’s very clear.

But this is too good.

[Lou] Yeah but I’m upset about that.

Well, you can be upset all you want.

I’m the boss.

(phone ringing)

[Lou] Chris.

(phone ringing)

[Male] Hello?

Chris, it’s Gary Vee.

[Male] Yo ho ho!

No way!

Chris, you were by the
guys after they bought

the 60 Lukas from me that day?

[Lou] Oh!

He hung up?

[Lou] It died, that’s what he said.

Call him one more time.

(dial tone buzzing)

Topps regular excites me.

Especially, I think 2009
’cause, or 2000, 2009,

I just did this homework the other day.

(phone ringing)

When Topps was about to lose its license,

short printing and like, I love that shit.

Supply and demand.

[Chris] Gary, are you there?

I’m here, brother, how are you?

[Chris] Yo, I am great, man!


Were you by the guys
that bought the 60 Lukas

for 60 bucks at the National off me?

[Chris] I was and let me preface this,

I was chatting it up with
Tyler D. Rock and Lou

and I just spent $400 on
the Chippers, that Chipper,

that you put up on Twitter
as an emotional investment

because Chipper was my
guy growing up, you know?

He’s your favorite player?

Yep, yep.

[Chris] And you were
like FGC, man, vintage.

Flip it up.

So I was like, Gary V, Chipper, you know.


[Chris] This was my first card purchase

since I was like 12.

I love that.

[Chris] Anyway.

Thank you.

[Chris] So I dropped some
change on some other stuff

and I watched the guy
do the Luka deal, right?


[Chris] And I was like,
hey, how much were those?

He said, y’all said 60
earlier, I thought it was 80,

but he was like, “Yeah man,
they’re 80 bucks a piece.”

Dude had a duffle bag full
and here’s what his plan was.

He had a store, he had
a store in Texas, right?

They had a store in Texas.

[Chris] I think so, I think so.

Go ahead.

[Chris] But what his plan was, was this,

and I hope that he
didn’t stick to his plan.

I hope he was like, hey,
shit might get real.

Like I need to hold
onto these for a minute


Well I hope he made a
mistake ’cause he ripped me off

so I hope he got ripped off.

[Chris] Dude, he took
you to the woodshed.

He told me, this was his plan,

and I hope he didn’t stick
to it but his plan was,

and again, I’d never
purchased cards before,

I didn’t know that like cards
could be worth, I thought it,

junk era is all I knew.

Me too.

[Chris] Baseball cards, terrible.

Don’t do it, it’s not a good thing.

So he was like, “Yeah man,
I’m gonna, here’s the plan,

“I paid 80 bucks a piece, it’s off season,

“market’s kind of cold right
now and they’re like buying,”

he said, “You know, mid season
Luka’s gonna go off,

“they’ll go up to about
160 and I’ll double,

“I’ll double my money on
this duffel bag of Lukas.”

And I was no way, dude!

And now you look at it
and you’re like, bro,

like I’m not saying go out
and buy a brand new car

but if you wanted to, you could!

Well, if people,

bro, and it’s not about Gary
V ’cause he was buying Lukas

from other places.

He made the right call on Luka.

I was pushing everybody hard

[Chris] At the right time.

That’s right, I was pushing people hard

to buy the LeBron for 1,050.

It’s 7500.

If you bought 10, like
that’s a real thing.

There’s no stock that’s gone
up more during that time.

There’s no real estate investment,

like it’s happening and I
think it’s got a long way to go

and by the way we’re all
sitting here laughing at Luka

or marveling at Luka at 600.

If Luka is as good as I
personally think he is

and does not get hurt,

I’d hate to see what that
card’s worth on the next flip

in 15 years where we go
hard here for four years

then the market gets soft,
they all go down 20 to 30%,

’cause the trend is over
and then it gets hot again

in 15 years, who the fuck
knows where that could be.

[Chris] That’s, and I’ve
been, I’m actually fixing to,

I (muffled) PSA ’cause
I don’t trust stubbers,

and I’m fixing to send off like 250 cards

that I’m really excited about,

Good for you.

[Chris] But that being said,
I think it’s very important,

and I’m sure that, I mean
you’ve done this a good bit,

but just to continue
to reiterate to people

that are getting into the market

to do your fricking homework.

50 hours.

[Chris] And also know that like if I,

like the other day, Ron Acuna went nuts.


[Chris] He’s my guy, I lived
in Atlanta, all about it.

I pulled two on Stock X after,
my count was 210 a piece,

I was in at 75.

I was pumped.

A day later, 300 on Stock X and I said,

hey, I got my money, it’s all good,

but people need to know that like

And, brother, back to the Luka thing

[Chris] You gotta
figure out your strategy.

You can’t be upset about the
fact that the market went nuts.

Hey, you doubled up like
that’s, you can’t

You beat me to it.

You’re never gonna catch any
market at the top and to me,

if you’re smart, there’s
so much opportunity and,

by the way, if Ronald goes 50/50

which he potentially has in him.

[Chris] It’s game time. (laughs)

I mean if, I’m just, listen,
I’m just talking sports.

If Ronald went 50/50 and
became the first guy to do it,

it’s a $1000 card.

[Adam] But also, that’s when you know,

if he’s the first guy to do
it, he can bat 200 next year

and maybe the year
after, it doesn’t matter.

He is, he is, Mr. 50/50.

It doesn’t matter if you
want to flip them at 1,000,

if you’re doing what I’m
doing which is you’re hoping

in perpetuity that you’re buying
people that sustain value,

you want to be a little bit careful.

Like to me

[Chris] Totally.

Here’s where I’m at

[Chris] I really like your,
I really like the 80/20 model

that you’re talking about
’cause I’ve had a (muffled)

for emotional reasons

’cause I’m in Atlanta and I’m watching him

and I’m like this is crazy
but also I kinda like, my,

what I wanna do is set an
initial, let’s call it five grand,

flip, flip, flip, flip and
I’ll have a ton of cards

and a ton of net worth
or whatever in cards

but if it crashes I lost 5 grand.

I mean

To your point, here’s
one of the things for me,

do you understand, so I’ve
bought how many Ronalds Topps

do we have right now?

[Lou] The update or the (muffled)

I bought 33 complete sets

because back to educating my way,

I missed it, I was going too fast.

So how many, the updates?

[Lou] You have 30.


I didn’t think I had more, no?

[Lou] Maybe it was 40.

Okay, 30 to 40 updates right?

Again, not big economics
for me personally.

This is why everybody’s
like he’s manipulative.

I wish they knew.

[Chris] For sure, for sure, people,

I’m on all the Facebook
rooms, those guys are dumb.

It’s not that they’re dumb,

it’s just that they’re making hot takes

without any truth behind it.

[Chris] They’re uneducated about

They’re just,

they’re making assumptions
without knowing me

as a human being nor
any of my truths of how,

what I’m sitting on,

but here’s why I’m excited,

if you think I give a fuck
about an Atlanta Braves game

in September and in the
last 20 years, I do not.

If Mr. Ronald goes into
Labor Day with 51 home,

41 homers and 39 steals,

I’m gonna be out of my fucking mind.

[Chris] You will not miss a game.

I’m not gonna miss, at least
a box score ’cause I’m busy,

but I’m gonna be fired up
and then Lou’s gonna text me

at 11:30 at night while
I’m, and then back in the

[Chris] He’s gonna be
like Ronald on second

and he’s about to do it!

You got it.

And that brings happiness.

That to me is something
the people are missing the,

the NBA finals, playoffs this year,

are about to be 30X interesting to me.

[Chris] They’re gonna be bonkers.

‘Cause I’m excited!

[Chris] But also, back
to, y’all mentioned,

y’all mentioned the PSA nine,

one of my follow ups to that, I was like,

dude, no doubt,

like literally I think
it was three weeks ago

or a month ago I was like, why are,

’cause I got in right when
the National happened,

I got in and I was like Ronald
Acuna is my guy, Atlanta.

I started buying

He nailed it.

[Chris] I’m sending like 70 raw to PSA

to make that top report pop a little more

but here’s the deal,

is that I was like why was I,

I was buying cards all
throughout the off season

’cause they were getting super cheap

and I don’t get it ’cause
I remember the prices

during the season.

So I was like why can I get
an encapsulated PSA nine

Ron Acuna for 20 ships or 25 ships

and then literally like three weeks later,

it’s like 70 bucks.

One sold for 100!


The market is no different

then whether it’s
cryptocurrency and, guess what,

Bitcoin was a good investment at this,

like here this many years later when,

even though it fluctuated.

No different than real estate.

My friend, Mike Plias, who’s
here has done a lot of stuff

in the Broadway market.

I’m sure when fucking
Hamilton first came out

and the resell value was super high,

everyone was complaining and
it hadn’t even gotten close

to its height yet ’cause it was early.

This is good old fashioned
Americana supply and demand.

If I’m right and I could be
wrong and I’ve been wrong before

but fuck I rarely, I mean
the market has already done

what I said it was gonna do two years ago

but I still think it’s early, man.

I really do think it’s early
and do I think that creates

very high prices that become
a vulnerability in four years?

I do but I think there’s
less of a vulnerability

if that’s LeBron and Brady
and if you’re right about Luka

or if Trae Young does become Steph Curry

and wins two titles in Atlanta,

dropping 55 by shooting from half court.

You have to be right.

Sports cards will not disappear
off the face of the earth

like the pet rock.

They’ve been doing it for a hundred years.

It’s not going anywhere.

Which ones, which grading
companies, which, is it,

like one of the big debates right now is,

is it PSA nine or is it
Hoops PSA 10 on Luka?

Is a Luka Prizm PSA nine, what’s the,

like I don’t know.

Are the 10s locking in so
hard ’cause people want 10s.

I think BGS is not as
popular as, you know,

PSA was doing it longer
but Beckett was Beckett

and if Beckett made the decision
to go 10 instead of 9.5,

I think they would be even.

[Chris] Hey, don’t give
away my secret, Gary!

Don’t give away my secret
because even when the,

and I’ll just do it now
but even when the PSA nines

of the Acunas were shooting up to 40, 50,

I was still grabbing TSA, or not TSA

BGS 9.5s.

[Chris] BGS at like 30 bucks.

Me too.

[Chris] But I’m finding

When I, just, real

[Chris] Dude, right before top,

I would find BGS 9.5 Ronald for 70 bucks!

And PSA was at like 200.

I’m doing the same thing.

I’ve been buying BGS nine

[Chris] And SPC but also
don’t tell me about

Yeah, to me it’s when I go deeper

and I’m trying to buy up
inventory, I’ve been going BGS 9.5,

not PSA nine.

I could be wrong.

I bought Ronalds, I bought
Ronald complete sets

because I didn’t read carefully
and didn’t buy Topps update.

Then there’s the holiday shit.

Like I’m getting educated too.

I’m excited about losing.

This phone call is about me losing.

I sold 60 Lukas for 60 bucks for 3600,

[Chris] You did

For 3600, for 3600,

those same 60 Lukas are now worth 36,000.

[Chris] Not bad.

That’s a $32,000 L to my fucking mouth.

[Chris] Hey, but you
told people about Luka

so that means you

I did.

The market, right?


That’s the biggest joke ever.

As if like, it’s not like I’m
running around town saying,

you know, oh you gotta go hot

on some guy who like sucks shit.

[Chris] Yeah.

(muffled talking)

It’s also really fun like
when you’re in the city

that has a superstar.

Like I’m also really big
on John Collins, why?

‘Cause he’s going 20 and 10 every night

and he’s a good dude.

I like John Collins a lot.

I like John Collins.

The problem is, the
problem, the problem is,

power forwards don’t pop as much.

[Chris] And see?

You’re dealing out information
and I’m like, I hear that.

Right, you deal with, you
look at, you look at Durant,

I’m sorry, I apologize,
you look at Kevin Garnett,

you look at Tim Duncan.

Like the big men don’t pop
the way the scorers do.

[Chris] But then again,
like John Collins is,

his game is still developing
and he’s shooting threes.

So maybe his game develops to
where he’s like a hybrid

To your point

[Chris] And all of a
sudden his cards do pop.

To your point, we’re
getting to the point

where even if you’re a five,
you gotta shoot from three.

[Chris] Yeah.

So, yeah.


[Chris] Amazing.

And by the way, something
I brought up here tonight

and then in seven years
two founders really invent

a grading company that puts
it through a fucking computer

and it scans and no
human’s there and no longer

are you worried about somebody
on a take or trimming.

[Chris] You should make, you
should, you have the money,

you should make that
happen and just take over.

It’s not about, brother, brother,

this is a great way to
recap this whole night.

It’s not about the money,
it’s about what you like to do

and what you’re good at.

I’m not good, 10 years
ago everyone’s like,

Gary, you’re so right
about Facebook and Twitter.

You should start a startup.

I’m like, I don’t do that.

I know how to use them.

I don’t start a technology
company that grades cards.

I make bets on stickers or SGC
or a Jordan card that I think

because it’s art will play.

Today the hobby doesn’t
like oversized cards,

I think it will.

I could be wrong.

[Chris] Yep.

I could be wrong.

You know, today I don’t think the hobby

[Chris] Or you could right
which is what makes it fun.

I mean, The Rock is more famous

than every fucking athlete.

Like so there’s just a lot of things

[Chris] Yeah, and he
ain’t going anywhere.

LeBron is for the next hundred years.

He’s their Jordan.

[Chris] Yeah.

My favorite cards to buy,

my favorite cards to buy right
now are ’61 Fleer basketball,

Oscar, Jerry West, the
logo, Wilt Chamberlain.

[Chris] And why, what’s
that thought process?

My thesis, my thesis,

[Chris] Because you like it

or ’cause you like the
prospect of the future of it?

I don’t like anything.

I’m unemotional when
it comes to this stuff.

I like basketball’s future
and I like Netflix and Quibi

and Amazon Prime so I think

a lot of documentaries are coming.

I would argue that Pippen
and Rodman’s rookies

are about to go up because
a 10 part docuseries

is coming about the Bulls this summer

and for a lot of people
they’re gonna get educated

on how those players played
and I think Jordan rookies

are gonna quadruple ’cause
it’s gonna become cultural.

No different than The Blindside,

no different than Miracle on Ice,

no different than anything.

It takes one thing.

Nobody cared about Star Wars
when I was in high school

and I was buying Star Wars
figures at garage sales

for a quarter and buying
out everybody’s collection

’cause I heard a rumor
at a baseball card store

that Star Wars movies were gonna come back

and then all those Star Wars figures

that I bought for a
quarter started selling

on eBay for 20 bucks a piece.

My thesis is that
basketball’s the culture.

It’s the same reason I’m buying
Peles in the 50s and 60s.

I think that basketball
and soccer are the upside

and I think as we get deeper
into basketball culture,

this generation’s Mickey
Mantles and Babe Ruths

actually then become Wilt Chamberlain

and Kareem Abdul Jabbar and
then God forbid, God forbid,

the coolest Netflix
documentary is about Kareem

or about Wilt or about Jerry,

or if a documentary comes out
in a year called The Logo.

[Chris] That’s the equivalent
of like what’s his face,

somebody, Luka hitting a
game winner in game seven.

You got me.

You got me.

If in 24 months, at the prime of Netflix,

they come out with a
documentary called The Logo

and it’s Jerry West’s story

and it gets into the public consciousness

and that is in parallel
with the white heat

moment of the sports card world,

which I think it will be,

I think Jerry West rookie
cards could be four x

what they are now ’cause guess what?

There’s a lot of Lukas.

There is not a lot of 1961
Jerry West rookie cards

running around.

[Chris] Especially there,
you know, nine whatever 10.

It’s why I think Dr.
J is wildly interesting.

[Chris] So I just want to say one thing.

Santa Claus is my dad so
we met you at the National

just to

Oh, I remember, bro, I remember.

That was the best!

[Chris] That’s it, that’s it.

Tell, say what’s up to your dad for me.

He’s the best.

[Chris] You know what else is crazy?

You know what else is
crazy is the other day

I put up something on my
Instagram story about cards,

I’ve been doing a couple,
I don’t have like,

just for my friends, I was like, look,

I bought a Luka for 80, it’s
worth 550 and then I was like

I didn’t buy Trout at a
thousand now he’s two!

And this guy named Arthur
Leopold hopped into my DMs,

he’s COO of Can e dub, he was like,

“Dude, I was just hanging out with Gary V

“and all he could talk
about was sports cards.

“What’s going on with that?”

And I was like, dude, it’s the move.

I think it is.

[Chris] So

Thank you, brother.

[Chris] Small world.

I wish you well.

Talk to you soon.

[Chris] Yeah, man.

Have a good night.

I’m wrapping up.

I hope this brought some
clarity, some value,

some information.

I’ll be on social answering
questions in perpetuity.

I’m excited about it.

I’m enjoying it.

If you just wanna collect raw
cards of your favorite athlete

and that is an enjoyment,

good news, that’s there for you.

If you wanna only collect classics

and put them away for 20 years,

I do think that’s a good move.

If you’re excited about
making an entire bet on Torres

or Vlad, Junior or Titis, it’s high risk,

it could be wild high reward.

I think for people that
bet on sports games,

that that’s a better use of their money

so that makes me happy.

There’s just a million fucking ways to,

if you just wanna buy two cards

just so you can enjoy baseball
’cause it’s boring as fuck

for you now ’cause they
haven’t marketed well,

that’s a good idea.

If you just wanna enjoy
the NBA finals more

and you decide to look at
who’s gonna make the playoffs

and buy the superstar of each team,

that’s a good idea,

or if you don’t wanna
do shit and you wanna do

like that one caller and go into Pokemon

or Magic the Gathering or rare stickers,

I think that’s a good idea

or if you love like finding angles,

whether that’s a card
that nobody understands,

a genre that nobody understands,

a grading company that
you think has potential

versus different.

You know, stickers, soccer,
there’s so many ways to do it.

You’re in charge, not me,
not fucking everybody else

and just wait ’til you
see what happens next

and don’t blame the sports card companies

who are now gonna make 10X the production.

Of course, we have the next junk wax era.

Panini and Topps and Leaf and Upper Deck

are not in the business
of maintaining the hobby

in a limited way to make sure

the supply and demand gets up.

They’re in the business of selling cards.

We’re in the business of being
educated that Prizm this year

is probably four times
the production of Prizm

the year before.

[Male] Do you think that
they have an opportunity

to sustain the demand
because there’s more people

involved than before?

Of course that’s what happened
during the junk wax era.

They were making millions
’cause millions were buying

but then inevitably
once the interest wanes,

the people that

[Male] Do you think there’s
higher demand now or no?

I don’t know.

I do not know.

My intuition is no.

I think a lot of people are
like, ti’s better than ever.

I’m like, you weren’t there
when there was no internet,

video games were still
far less of a big deal

than you think in 1987.

There was Nintendo at scale but like,

it wasn’t like full time.

There was only 36 channels.

There was no internet,
there was no Netflix.

Every single kid in my sixth, seventh,

and eighth grade class, 89% of them,

collected and flipped cards.

So I don’t think it’s as big.

I do think there is something else though

because that is the golden era.

Much like if you look at
coins, cars, sports cards,

if you look at sports cards golden era,

it was people that grew up in the 50’s

that then had money in the 70’s

that really drove that market.

I do think you’re seeing that now.

People like me who couldn’t
afford shit, jack shit,

can now afford stuff
so they’re doing that.

So I think there’s a lot of
variables but I don’t think

it’s bigger than it was in ’86 to ’93

and I think what the card
companies have done well

is they’ve started creating one of 10s,

super premium product.

So there is some play but
I think to remind people,

if you were wrong about Greg
Vaughn or Mike Greenwell

or Jerome Walton or Bo Kimble
or Glen “Big Baby” Robinson

or Eric Davis, like if
they didn’t go on to be,

I thought Eric Davis was
gonna be Willie Mays.

If he became Willie Mays,

those cards would be worth something.

Like this is about being
right about players

or it’s about gambling and
pulling a very rare card

and you’re allowed to do whatever you want

or kind of what I’m doing, 80% classic,

did the homework and
looked at the last 50 years

when the market gets dog
shit, it’ll go down 20 to 40%.

I won’t be pumped but I’m
not gonna liquidate then

’cause I’ll never expose
myself that I need the money

and then when it goes back up,

it will continue to pick
up the way they have.

Anything else?

Any other like tough questions?

I’m pumped that you asked
about the National, SGC.

I continue to talk to Topps and Panini.

There was nothing more exciting
maybe in my life’s history

then when this happened.

Me being in a sports card
that you can get out of a pack

is still one of the greatest
things that ever happened to me

and so

[Lou] I opened the Fox
tiers last night and there was


You did?

Yeah, that was the best and
I continue to like pound

Topps and Panini everyday like,

hey, wanna do something with me

’cause I wanna open up
packs with me in it.

It’s fucking amazing.

I wasn’t good enough to be
in sports so I never thought

that would be in my journey so that’s fun.

So that’s going on.

Maybe in seven years I buy an old brand,

I haven’t thought about that.

[Lou] I think hammering
home the fact that after the,

people, a big thing was people freaked out

because after the National,

you kind of went to
sleep for a little bit.

I went to sleep on my public
content but I was buying,

[Lou] I’m aware.

I was bleeding underwater
because Vaynermedia

had a lot of things going on.

The Jets season always takes
away my attention, yeah.

[Lou] Yeah, I think
people were just like,

their reaction is cool,
it’s almost summertime.

It’s almost National time.

He’s ramping back up again.

I love the National more than breathing

’cause I like being a dealer.

It was the best moment of my
life but I do it once a year

but I go to the Westchester
show the other day

and like nobody, like people don’t know,

and by the way tomorrow, because
of the business opportunity

or a family situation or something else,

I may not be able to
tweet about, you know me,

I ebb and flow.

I can’t have sustained heat.

I get too bored.

I’m too interested in a lot of other shit

but I’ve been buying the whole
time and I’ll continue to.

[Male] Aggressively buying

Aggressively buying ’cause
I think it’s a good deal,

not because of my health

or ’cause I love the sports card gods.

I don’t love anybody but
my family and Jet fans

and my team and 99.9% of my
content is to let my community

who is not as fancy as these
card dealers that are mad at me

who do have only $800,

the same audience that I
told to go to garage sales

and buy things for a dollar,

if I believe in my heart that Lukas at $35

are underpriced and I have
a whole world of friends

and followers that are in
college debt to the tune

of $70,000 and if they
bought a hundred of them

because they didn’t buy some
dumb shit like I tell them

not to do or they saved
and stopped buying coffee

and bought 100 of them,
they’d be out of debt.

I’m not here to buy 30
fucking Acuna and flip like,

what the fuck’s the matter with people?

Of the millions I’ve spent,
90% of it’s go to sleep

’cause I think it’s art.

I think this is a fucking $100,000 thing.

I do.

I believe it, in 21 years.

So I’m not flipping it.

At the National you can rip me off

or I’ll sell some of my
stuff ’cause it’s fun.

I needed to care about baseball
again so I need the fucking

Sotos and Acunas and I need that shit

’cause I’ve been waning
and I don’t wanna lose

in fantasy baseball every year.

I wanna win.

Wrestling’s forever.

Yeah, I’m sorry I’m not
tweeting as much or as little

or I’m, I can’t win.

I don’t tweet, you disappeared.

I tweet too much, you’re manipulative.

Like, I can’t win.

I’m not, nobody’s buying
on my behalf so you’re more

than welcome to see it, you know?

Cynicism, fucking cynicism.

It’s a fucking poison, cynicism.

I’m not judging how
you’re living your life.

You wanna collect raw
cards from your childhood?

I think that’s dog shit.

You think it’s amazing?

Knock yourself out.

Gary, you must collect Jet players.


Could give a fuck.

Zero fucks.

That’s not how I approach
it but if you wanna collect

Bears cards like it’s your job,

I’m so happy for you.

Good news, those will stay underpriced.

You’re so upset about manipulation?

Good news, raw cards of
your favorite players

will stay underpriced.

[Lou] Also, generational
talents and then

And if they’re generational
talents like, hey,

you gotta make sure your
bandwagon like that kid.

If you’re fucking bandwagon
and you’re just following

LeBron and Zion you’re gonna get caught.

If you’re a hometown fan,
you’ll probably be okay.

Plus, you can’t get to everything.

I think for instance
Francisco Lindor is a fucking

big time player and, I haven’t
even looked up his cards yet.



See ya.

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